D&D 5E (2024) Player's & Dungeon Master's Workbooks

[Whisper-Kitten]

Let me give you some non-exclusive positions:

• Players will use the prompts in the book to create character with exhaustive backgrounds and personalities that the DM will be forced to accommodate.
• The player will fill out this without DM input and thus may run contradictory to the DMs world and tone.
• The player will decide aspects of their character before the game starts rather than discovering them though play and/or dice rolls.
• The player will become inflexible and demand what is written be accommodated rather than adapt to the DM, events, or world.
• The player will do this in the vacuum of not being with other players, potentially designing a character that does not fit with the other players.

I've heard every one of these at some point here, and this book is gonna be example A in the Entitled Player Arguments from here on out, regardless of how innocuous it actually is.

For the record, I think these are a great idea and if it wasn't cost prohibitive, I'd buy one for each of my players. But I already know that unless this book has "check with your DM" written on each page, people here are gonna vilify it.

Then those players can be promptly asked to leave. I‘m willing to make some accomidations, but I won‘t alter the broader story to make their character fit seamlessly. In the end they know what they are getting into when I start the campaigns.

 

[GreyLord]

I would have loved something like this when I was a budding DM.

You may still love it!

I (personal feeling) feel it could be useful for any DM who is trying to build their campaign in some ways.

Sure, it basically takes things out of the DMG, but the way it is presented is slightly different to help one along in the path in building the campaign. It can help even the most experienced perhaps notice or see a new way of handling things, easier shortcuts...etc.

 

[Stormonu]

How helpful did she find it for creating a world? Or is it more for first time world builders? I was looking for reviews on this and I couldn’t find any before so thank you.

We just got it, so I haven't had a lot of time to look through it or use it yet. I will say of what I have seen its purely non-mechanical and story-forward way of approaching setting up a campaign (you could use it for any game system, really).

One of the examples was an exercise to envision a coronation. Where is it happening? How is it decorated? Who is attending? Who is NOT attending? Why is it happening on this day? Why is the party here? What could happen that would make it memorable? Again, all of it is presented so there's no mechanics involved. You'd get something like this:

Spoiler

It is a cool autumn day and the rain has stopped an hour earlier, leaving the former battlefield muddy and the air moist. Fresh banners of the ten great knight houses of soon-to-be King Harold have been placed in a large circle on the driest knoll adjacent to the battlefield, the largest being the couped wolf's head of House Stannock. The platform at the center that Harold used to direct the battle has been festooned with unbloodied white cloth and fresh flowers picked from nearby. A local druid has enmagicked Harold's own banner so that the wooden pole is now entwined with tendrils of green leaves and topped with a golden laurel of heavily laden olive branches and garlic cloves.

The winning faction in this last battle was Harold Valledine, now in his late twenties, and his host of loyal knights - most of whom are nearly a decade or more older than the young would-be king and trace their loyalty back to Harold's father. Having defeated the young knights of Harrenhall - most of whom are only as old as Harold or even younger - who sought to elevate their own king to the throne their forces have been laid low and an armistice was called to clear the dead and injured from the field.

Would-be King Phillip, half-brother to Harold, of the rebel forces was gravely injured and his own knights don't think he will survive to the next morning. Phillip's daughter, Penelope, had approached Harold after the battle under a white flag and plead for Harold to save the lives of the rebel knights - which Harold would only do if they all renounced Phillip and pledged loyalty to him. Penelope agreed to the marriage to further sweeten the act of pardoning Phillip's knights, but she agreed only if she married a "true king" - which meant Harold being crowned first.

Harold was, of course, smitten by Penelope and agreed. For the past few hours tents have been set up for Penelope and her troupe as the field is made ready for Harold to be crowned king. The PCs have been tasked with patrolling the encampment to look for signs of treachery or discontent amid Phillip's former knights and prevent fights from breaking out during the tenuous truce.

The first part will be the characters initially patrolling the camp and meeting several NPCs to get a feel of who's who and the existing tension in the camp, as well as becoming familiar with the camp layout.

The second part will have the characters intervene in a quarrel between a troupe of knights loyal to Phillip and those loyal to Harold (Harold's knights accuse Phillip's knights of stealing bread and cheese from the tents of Harold's knights; Phillip's knights are hungry, and have the goods, but did ask another knight for permission to gather something to eat, but wandered into the wrong tent). The characters will need to diffuse hostilities to the best of their abilities.

The third part will have the characters discover clues that Phillip, displeased with Penelope's agreement to marriage, has secretly sent an assassin to kill Harold during the coronation. The assassin is being helped by a troupe of knights still loyal to Phillip, who will attempt to draw the character's attention away from the actual coronation. After stopping the knights, the party will have to discern the assassin's true nature before he/she can get close to Harold.

As you can see - no mechanics such as monster stats, DCs, CRs and the like are mentioned.

Likewise, while I have only glanced through the PHB version, I'd walk away from any DM who would be bothered by their players using it. It isn't meant to be filled out start-to-finish before play but to introduce to the concepts of roleplaying, thinking what sort of character you might enjoy (as above, there's no mechanics mentioned throughout) and as a journal of what your character has done and might consider doing.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

That’s a reasonable price for a 176 page product.

Color me interested in both of them.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Let me give you some non-exclusive positions:

• Players will use the prompts in the book to create character with exhaustive backgrounds and personalities that the DM will be forced to accommodate.
• The player will fill out this without DM input and thus may run contradictory to the DMs world and tone.
• The player will decide aspects of their character before the game starts rather than discovering them though play and/or dice rolls.
• The player will become inflexible and demand what is written be accommodated rather than adapt to the DM, events, or world.
• The player will do this in the vacuum of not being with other players, potentially designing a character that does not fit with the other players.

I've heard every one of these at some point here, and this book is gonna be example A in the Entitled Player Arguments from here on out, regardless of how innocuous it actually is.

For the record, I think these are a great idea and if it wasn't cost prohibitive, I'd buy one for each of my players. But I already know that unless this book has "check with your DM" written on each page, people here are gonna vilify it.

I think its the same issue as whenever you give detailed guidance on how to do D&D - you channel a particular playstyle. So it will work for tables who use that playstyle, but cause problems for tables who have a different playstyle.

 

[Stormonu]

Under normal circumstances I would say this is a great tool for new players, but I feel a number of posters on this forum are probably going to have a major problem with the advice this is going to give.

On a related note: where did you get them? I heard they were at Target but I don't know where you would look for them...

I picked them up at our local FLGS - they had about 10 copies of each. I wasn't aware they were available in Target. I do see they can be ordered off Amazon and I suspect they'll be in book store chains as well, such as Barnes and Nobles or Booksamillion.

 

[Remathilis]

I think its the same issue as whenever you give detailed guidance on how to do D&D - you channel a particular playstyle. So it will work for tables who use that playstyle, but cause problems for tables who have a different playstyle.

I don't have a problem with WotC endorsing a particular play style in its rules and supplemental materials. It's been doing that for as long as I've played and the style of character-first/story first has been alive since as least the 90s. I just know that their are a vocal group of DMs who would view a player answering hypothetical situations as their character as somehow teaching bad play habits, despite that kind of character design being common for decades.

 

[abazaba]

I was made aware of both of these books back when they were announced, but have not really followed up on that with reading reviews of them (once they were published). I like the idea of both of them though, even if I am only a player and not a DM (but am getting DM-curious). Both are on my wish-list though, so I am looking forward to the opinions of the people here who have read the books.

PS: I'm not a teenager.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I don't have a problem with WotC endorsing a particular play style in its rules and supplemental materials. It's been doing that for as long as I've played and the style of character-first/story first has been alive since as least the 90s. I just know that their are a vocal group of DMs who would view a player answering hypothetical situations as their character as somehow teaching bad play habits, despite that kind of character design being common for decades.

I do. D&D’s success is based around it being a broad church, supporting a wide range of different playstyles, whist avoiding being comply contradictory, and thus the largest possible number of players, and thus the rules generally have a degree of vaguery about how they should be used.

 

[Remathilis]

I do. D&D’s success is based around it being a broad church, supporting a wide range of different playstyles, whist avoiding being comply contradictory, and thus the largest possible number of players, and thus the rules generally have a degree of vaguery about how they should be used.

There is a fine line though between support and advocating. The workbooks clearly reinforces the notion of role-playing and character forcused design for players and narrative-driven play for DMs. That design ethos is imbedded deep in the PHB and DMG (and MM) as well. Which is why the sample adventures in the DMG feature short scenarios and colorful characters over dungeon-creation matrixes.

Now, can 5.5 be USED to create old-school dungeon hacks with sprawling maps and instant-death traps? Of course. Do the rules really support it? Kinda sorta. There is only so much room, and WotC has to choose its focus. There are plenty of 3pp supplements to fill the void for those playstyles to that aren't catered to by WotC. I don't need D&D to be a floor cleaner, a hair gel and a dessert topping. I need it to be the best at what it does and allow me to adjust things on my own to suit my needs. And WotC clearly sees more value in story-driven adventures and character-driven PCs than it does in megadungeons and unnamed Mage #4.