D&D General Portable, Renewable Fuel Sources

[Shades of Eternity]

man I can see the equivelent of Cyst Pigs.

and after tomb of annihiliation. what if magical food has ...side effects.

 

[Umbran]

The Decanter of Endless Water powering a turbine seems like an obvious choice.

The Decanter providing clean drinking water where there is none is perhaps even more powerful

Or just summon anything to turn a turbine, for that matter. Presto! Endless electricity.

Eh. You don't get turbines (and the dynamo you attach to the turbine to generate electricity) until you get late-19th century technology.

Aside from how it depends on electromagnetism working the way you figure it would, which isn't a given, it is unclear why you would bother if magic is present. Wouldn't an electric para-elemental be more direct?

Electricity is an effective tool when power storage is necessary, or when centralized power generation takes advantage of economies of scale over local power generation.

When you can bind magical energies directly into things, storage or centralized generation aren't needed. I don't need to summon something to turn a turbine/dynamo, transmit that electricity, and have a motor at the far end. I could just summon the same thing to do the motor's work directly. I don't need electrical infrastructure to turn the mill - I could just have an earth elemental spin the millstone itself.

 

[Stalker0]

The Decanter providing clean drinking water where there is none is perhaps even more powerful

in terms of areas with no water, absolutely. In terms of clean, it comes down to if salt water counts as poisoned, diseased water for purify food and drink purposes.

If it does any 1st level cleric could easily provide 20k gallons of fresh water a day with a couple hours worth of effort. But if you don’t count that, than yeah the decantur becomes even more valuable

 

[Umbran]

If it does any 1st level cleric could easily provide 20k gallons of fresh water a day with a couple hours worth of effort.

So, a casting of Purify Food and Drink gets a 5' radius sphere. That's 523.6 cubic feet, or 3,917 gallons. That is assuming you make a 5' radius tank spherical tank, so you get that full volume. You also need a water source, and a way to fill and empty that tank, over the course of a few hours.

With 5 castings you get 19585 gallons. It is a first level spell. A first level cleric gets two 1st level spells a day, and can get 4 castings on one specific day (cast 2, long rest, cast another 2), but cannot do that every day, as they have to then wait 16 hours to long rest again. Long average, they can cast it twice a day.

So, I'm not sure where you get 20K gallons a day. More like 7800 gallons.

Of course, the Decanter must be activated for every action it gives water, so some poor schlub is standing there doing that all day. If they activate the geyser once per minute, they can match a cleric in under four and a half hours. If the gm allows them to activate it once per round, even though they aren't in combat, they can do it in more like half an hour.

But if you don’t count that, than yeah the decantur becomes even more valuable

This isn't 3e, with an assumed demographic in the DMG to provide some number of clerics of a given level. How many clerics there are around to provide clean water is up to the GM in 5.x, so we can't reliably say clean water is ubiquitous.

 

[Stalker0]

So, I'm not sure where you get 20K gallons a day. More like 7800 gallons.

Its a ritual. 20k gallons is a meer 5 castings or ~51 minutes of casting time. Very easy and manageable, if you want to go hard core with it you can scale it much more aggressively.


That said, as a DM I would not rule that salt water is poisonous. You can drink salt water without making a saving throw.

While sure if you drink enough salt water it will kill you....if I drink enough regular water it will also kill you. I would rule unless I expect to be making saving throws with each cup of the water I drink I would not consider it diseased or poisoned.

 

[kigmatzomat]

So, a casting of Purify Food and Drink gets a 5' radius sphere. That's 523.6 cubic feet, or 3,917 gallons. That is assuming you make a 5' radius tank spherical tank, so you get that full volume. You also need a water source, and a way to fill and empty that tank, over the course of a few hours.

Shape Water will move a 5ft cube (125cf/1,000gallons) 5ft every round. So you can easily "pump" water in/out of the vessel.

With 5 castings you get 19585 gallons. It is a first level spell. A first level cleric gets two 1st level spells a day, and can get 4 castings on one specific day (cast 2, long rest, cast another 2), but cannot do that every day, as they have to then wait 16 hours to long rest again. Long average, they can cast it twice a day.

Or, you know, ritual cast it 5 times an hour, cast shape water 40 times (20,000g out, 20,000g in) and use the other 5ish minutes to stretch and relax, have a drink, etc. I think that's about 20,000 gallons/hour

 

[Umbran]

Its a ritual. 20k gallons is a meer 5 castings or ~51 minutes of casting time.

Ah, yep. Missed that.

Very easy and manageable, if you want to go hard core with it you can scale it much more aggressively.

If you can do major construction projects, or have many coopers on hand. Because, remember, it isn't enough to purify it. You have to keep it someplace where it stays clean. That means tanks, barrels, possibly pumps, aqueducts, and so on.

And, it is important to know that while it sounds like a lot, a 5' radius sphere of water is a drop in the bucket compared to a lake, reservoir, or aquifer, which is what large communities generally rely on.

That said, as a DM I would not rule that salt water is poisonous. You can drink salt water without making a saving throw.

That would be a rulings vs rules thing, I think.

Shape Water will move a 5ft cube (125cf/1,000gallons) 5ft every round. So you can easily "pump" water in/out of the vessel.

That is a cantrip, and so cant just be swapped in when you need it like purify food and drink can. Also, it is druid, sorcerer, or wizard cantrip, not a cleric one.

So, now you need a team of people, specially trained to take on the task.

But you are also proving for me that there's no real call for electricity transmission infrastructure, so thanks for that.

 

[kigmatzomat]

That is a cantrip, and so cant just be swapped in when you need it like purify food and drink can. Also, it is druid, sorcerer, or wizard cantrip, not a cleric one.

Unless the cleric is High Elf, as those can swap their species cantrip on long rest. Or it's a High Elf with Ritual Caster.

High Elves really are horrifying as a society. Its amazing how much of everything breaks when everyone effectively has a variant of Magic Initiate.

 

[Stalker0]

So, now you need a team of people, specially trained to take on the task.

Its true, but this is also comparing it the Decantur, which is a "uncommon" magic item. It comes down to, what is more common in your world, a decantur, or a 1st level cleric and someone who can cast shape water.

But of course that underscores another important topic, reliability. Even if we assume casters are relatively common, you would need to make sure such a vital city function had a good amount of backups. Cleric has a bad day and suddenly the city goes without water...that's not acceptable. The decantur in theory never breaks down....its main issue is security (ensuring the device is not stolen or damaged), and you would still want a backup somewhere accessible just in case.

I think the point we have both showcased is how trivial magic can make some of these industrial scale tasks in our society.

 

[Umbran]

Unless the cleric is High Elf, as those can swap their species cantrip on long rest. Or it's a High Elf with Ritual Caster.

Also, this entire scheme depends on the cleric being of the Water Filter God, or something, that is okay with this behavior. Like, if the god wanted their power spent providing a reliable, clean water source, they could do so without mortals, in their hubris, tasking their valuable spellcasting clerics to do the job, right?

Unless there's something in it for the god? Like tribute? Or worship?

And there won't be conflicts with other deities over this happening?

So, now you've linked your municipal water source to deific politics! Good job! Absolutely nothing could possibly go wrong with that!