[PrC] Dragon Disciple, house ruled

[Thot]

I know it's already been done, but I've revised it to suit my tastes. I will probably rule Force/Prismatic Dragon as a whole new Epic Prestige Class, if at all. I'd like help on balancing the different colors of Dragon Disciples, especially on the Breath Weapon issue. Thus, I need some help/feedback, please.

Warning: it's quite long, and not that much changed. It's in two parts : the evolved class with an Epic Progression, and a bunch of feats related.
To sum up, I've striken Enlargement, and granted 1/2 caster level.
I also personified it, especially by type a bit.
Here you go.

I've uploaded the last version, 3.1, the 02/06/03.

All posts behind are probably now irrelevant, so don't bother reading them.


Note : it's based on ideas of my own, but on an awful lot of others' ideas I haven't quoted too. If you want your name mentioned, let me know.

 

[Gez]

Just so you know, here's my house-ruling of the Dragon Disciple:

Enlargement: strike that. It don't happens. Half-dragons aren't larger than the base creature.

Wings: at this point, every dragon disciple gain wings, whatever the size. They are grewn from the transformative magic used to become closer to dragonkind.

My point ? If the class is going to give something the template don't give (enlargement), at least that thing should make sense (wings for all). Further, it reduce the imbalance between DD of medium size (human, dwarf, elf) and DD of small size (gnome, halfling).

 

[Thot]

I agree about handling size-difference, but you know, decrease in AC/BAB to get slightly better dmg doesn't appeal to me much, so the size issue isn't really one to me. I'd rather remain medium and fit in the world nicely (with wings and scale-skin ), but I think it gives a good feel to the class.
Wings, well, if you look at the template, you'll see that Dragon does wing damage beginning at Medium-size. As HD get the same chart with a difference of one size-category, I'd rule either that they don't have wings, or that their wings can't do dmg. I'd go for the last one, I think. Deal !
Thanks for this start, but anything else ?

 

[Gez]

What I was saying was that medium size becoming large gained huge benefits (+8 Str, Reach, Flight) for a meager cost (-1 AC, -1 BAB -- but compensed by the +4 Str bonus to attack -- and -4 to hide); while for small characters, who did get only +4 Str, the drawback were outbalancing the bonuses.

The enlargement thing was done only to allow DD to gain wings, since the half-dragon template give wings only to Large or bigger creatures.

But in doing so, it broke the rule, as half-dragons don't grow in size. So it's more fair and simple to break the rule so that wings are gained regardless of size.

 

[Thot]

What I was saying was that medium size becoming large gained huge benefits (+8 Str, Reach, Flight) for a meager cost (-1 AC, -1 BAB -- but compensed by the +4 Str bonus to attack -- and -4 to hide); while for small characters, who did get only +4 Str, the drawback were outbalancing the bonuses.

The way I understand it, you just gain an increased size, and none of the benefits you gain when you increase the HD of a monster in the monster manual. I mean that small DD becoming medium get an overall +8 Str over the 10 levels.

The enlargement thing was done only to allow DD to gain wings, since the half-dragon template give wings only to Large or bigger creatures.

Besides, the sorcerer Dragon Disciple is not an Half-dragon , he's on his way to becoming one, so if he enlarges during the process, it breaks no special rule I can think of.
And lastly, we agree that they should all have wings or no one should. You've given it to all. If we take it back from all, would the class be still appealing. I think not. But we could rule wings out, and allow it by a special feat. Yeah, we keep it like it is, and medium DD (formerly small sorcerer) can gain wings by buying it.

 

[Buddha the DM]

Thot: Nice take on the Dragon Disciple PrC. I see elements that look the changed that I made for my revision of it a while back.

 

[Thot]

Many thanks, could you give them to me (pm a .doc or something), or else put it (or at least some) here, so I may be able to fix the remaining bugs.
Thanks.

 

[Buddha the DM]

If you are asking for my version of the Dragon Disciple, I'm afraid that I can't put it up here anymore. It is slowly evolving and is making references to something that hasn't seen the light of day yet.

 

[Thot]

I've solved partially the Epic Dragon Disciple issue.
Normal DD are DD from lesser Dragons.
A feat (Superior Dragon Blood), allow you to play ordinary DD.
Taken twice, you can play greater DD.
Taken thrice, epic ones.
I'll attach the new version later.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

The way I understand it, you just gain an increased size, and none of the benefits you gain when you increase the HD of a monster in the monster manual. I mean that small DD becoming medium get an overall +8 Str over the 10 levels.

I think that any size increase should be accompanied by the benefits in the MM. If not, the Tome and Blood version is worthless. Also, all size increases, regardless of their source, should change those stats. (I mean, you just gained 4 ft. in height and about 2,000 pounds, you should be stronger.) The +8 to Strength that the class gives you is just the racial modifier of the Half-Dragon Template. If you applied the Half-Dragon template to a Large creature, you wouldn't take away it's size alterations, would you?

That being said, it is possible to just take away the size alteration of the DD entirely. That makes more sense to me.
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I like your Dragon specific feats. My only suggestion is that the DD should gain bonus "special abilities" every X number of levels that can only be spent on DD feats. I think they should be like the Rogue's special abilities. (And the DD feats cannot be earned with character advancement feats. This is so people don't take just one level in this PrC and then spend their character feats to get the DD feats.)