Pushing Psionics to a further breaking point...

[RUMBLETiGER]

Alright, lets ignore the fact that no sane DM would approve of this. Here's a character one could build, according to RAW, that would be very powerful, and honestly I'd enjoy playing.

In the Expanded Psionics Handbook there is a creature called the Unbodied. Fluff states that they were a race of creatures that transcended corporal form to become pure mind, blah blah.

Monsterous Humanoid, 4 HD. Overchannel and Wild Talent.
Incorporeal. Fly speed 30' good. assume the likeness of any creature sized small to large. Telekinetic Force power at will. As a character, +4 level adjustment.

Best part is, this creature is also considered a 4th level Psion, with all the PP and powers to go with. In the entry, it says that any class levels of Psion build upon the racial abilities to determine PP, manafester level & powers known.

This means, it's a +4 level adjustment creature, with 4 class levels built in. Plus all the extra goodies. A person wanting to make a Psionic Character would be crazy not to consider using this creature as the base race. And any DM would be crazy to approve of it.

Just sharing this lovely tidbit for those of you who like to build powerful things.

 

[xigbar]

A lot of people would frown upon the lost manifester levels, though. Sure, there are 4 psion levels built in to the 4 hit dice, but you've already lost 4 to the LA, so at 20th level, you won't have 9th level powers.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

A lot of people would frown upon the lost manifester levels, though. Sure, there are 4 psion levels built in to the 4 hit dice, but you've already lost 4 to the LA, so at 20th level, you won't have 9th level powers.

Either I'm not following what you are saying, or you're not following me. There are no lost manafester levels (if there are, this isn't as useful as I think it is). If you are this creature and take your first level in Psion, you are a 5th level Psion in PP, manafester levels, and Powers. You'd have 5 HD, and keep leveling from there.

 

[xigbar]

Either I'm not following what you are saying, or you're not following me. There are no lost manafester levels (if there are, this isn't as useful as I think it is). If you are this creature and take your first level in Psion, you are a 5th level Psion in PP, manafester levels, and Powers. You'd have 5 HD, and keep leveling from there.

You said it's a +4 LA creature. So, at ECL 8, it should have all it's monstrous HD, with Psion 4 manifesting, but only 12 levels to fit in before it reaches epic levels.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

You said it's a +4 LA creature. So, at ECL 8, it should have all it's monstrous HD, with Psion 4 manifesting, but only 12 levels to fit in before it reaches epic levels.

The Psion 4 manafesting is built into the +4 LA. If I understand that correctly, this makes it an ECL 4. If I'm wrong, than this isn't as useful as I think it is.

This is the entry as it reads, in part:
"Special attacks: Psionic powers..."
~And~
"Psionic Powers: An Unbodied manafests powers as a 4th-level psion (telepath)."
~and~
"And Unbodied that takes levels in psion (telepath) adds it's racial manafesting ability and psion levels together to determine it's power point reserve, manafester level, and powers known."

The way I understand what this says, is that with 4HD monstrous Humanoid (Which has 4 levels Psion (telepath) built in), plus 16 levels of Psion class, results in a 20 HD ECL, 20 level psion manafesting character.

granted, what I didn't pay attention to before was this is only if one makes a Psion of the telepath discipline. A Unbodied taking levels in Psion of any other discipline would be a Psion4/Psion1 at the first class level (which in itself might lead to interesting builds...)

If I understand this correctly, the end result of this is we've got a mechanically broken, overpowered creature that can be exploited into a character build.

 

[Rampant]

ECL = LA + HD

The effective character level of a creature is it's hit die plus it's level adjustment. The monster has four monstrous humanoid hit dice so with a +4 level adjustment it is a level 8 character on its own. Each psion level adds on to that so at level 20 you have 16 hd, and 16 manifester levels.

If you don't believe me consider the minotaur, it's got an LA of +2 but six monstrous humanoid hit dice. If ECL ignored monstrous hit dice as you suggest then a third level player could play a minotaur barbarian 1 with 7 hit dice.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Found a link, turns out the creature is on SRD database.

Unbodied :: d20srd.org

Hm... well then I've received an education it seems.

So than, the Skulk, with 2 HD and a LA of +2, is a ECL 4 creature?

 

[Rampant]

Yep.

What was really confusing was all the 1 hd monsters back before wizards started specifying whether a monster was being presented with NPC class levels.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Ah. Well then, I learned something, and this creature is less impressive.

Thanks all.

 

[nijineko]

pretty much the same story as a rakshasa sorcerer.... however, in a gestalt build, then this sort of ability suddenly becomes more impressive. your hit dice and la on one side, psion levels on the other.