Quasi-Shadowrun d20 (don't laugh)

[Krael]

Ok, before I start, I do NOT want this degenerating down into a flame war.

I want to start a modern-day (circa 2003) campaign, which has portions of Shadowrun in it. In particular, the players would be doing runs ala Shadowrun, working either for rival companies, or a 'secret government agency' that is behind the scenes pushing their own agenda.

The players would be tasked to do many of the same things they would do in Shadowrun, but more behind the scenes. They would be doing more covert, as opposed to overt actions, as the law these days tends to be much more strict than in the official setting. (I know, none of this makes much sense, as I'm still toying with the idea in my head).

Now comes the question. I'm trying to decide which system would portray this best. Spycraft seems to fit, if I wanted to go the government route (and possibly the private route), but not if they want to be freelance. D20 Modern would work if they want to go freelance, but I still can't get past the abstraction of the wealth system (maybe I just need to try it in a real game, instead of just reading about it), and the firearm rules.

Since this is modern-day, cybernetics are still some years away, the matrix/VR is still not up to speed, and the Awakening has not happened yet. (Who knows, maybe the characters will live long enough to see it happen with their own eyes).

*shrug* Could be a lame game, but I have to try

Krael

 

[Gospog]

This sounds like a cool idea! I always thought Shadowrun was run, but often balked at the system.

For a system, I reccomend D20 Modern. Mainly because it is generic. That allows you to "plug in" all sorts of third party supplements that apply specifically to what you need.
For example, I am using D20M to run Shado Chasers. When the chasers end un in an alternate dimension that is more "steampunk" than Earth, I throw in Sorcery & Steam. (I know it's meant for D&D, but so far, it looks easy to pull off).

And if you find that current day technology is too limiting, just crank the date forward 10 years or so, and introduce some "breakthroughs".
Hey, it's your world.

Again, sounds like fun...go for it!

 

[Krael]

The main problems I can see with D20M, are as follows.

1) The wealth system. I understand it's an abstraction, and meant to reduce the paperwork the players and GM have to keep track of, but I just can't wrap my head around it, and all it's nuances. But by the same token, it's something that may work, I just don't know yet.

2) Firearms... Still trying to figure out the autofire, strafe, etc rules, and the nuances contained therein. I would have to pull the book back off the shelf and reread the rules to give specifics.

Now, that's not to say D0M is 'bad', I'm saying that *I* have a few problems with a few of the rules. These rules would be integral to the setting I want to run though, and a (minor) stumbling block for me.

Krael

 

[trancejeremy]

Mercenary 2000 was a supplement for Twilight 2000 that basically did what your looking for. Though probably a bit more combat orientated.

I would probably use Spycraft.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, A fellow gamer of me and myself did a Shadowrun D20 Conversion, and we already played some games using the system.
It seemed to work quite well - I am not sure about copyright issues, thus I won`t give you any links here - but you probably won`t need that system anyway, because the most important things our system does is introducing cyberware, shadowrun races and magic, nothing your world will contain.
(And unless you speak German, you would need someone to translate several parts of it - is is mostly a German/English mix, because we use most english rule terms - the german D&D/D20 Distributor is very slow in regard to translating...)

To your issues:
a) Wealth System
The wealth system works fine, I think. We did also play a Dark Conspiracy D20 modern variant and a Special Unit 2 campaign, and the wealth system worked in all cases. Especially in a contemporay setting, you will probably never have any problems. The wealth system has several advantages, like the "equipment on hand" rules - you don´t have to write down every small item you might have - if it doesn`t cost much, you will probably have it if you need it.

b) Firearm Rules
The rules are more abstract than say, in Shadowrun itself or Cyberpunk or whatever system you might know else. But so are the D&D/D20 melee combat rules. (you have weapon size, weapon damage, weapon range as main statistics. No weapon speed, no special armor penetration values and so on).
It allows fast and fun combats, without calculating to much values. It has little min/max options due to this (unlike in Shadowrun, where you would either use a Shotgun and kill anyone in sight except those wearing hardened armor, or would fire 10 shoot bursts without penalty with a Gasventil VI, Strength6, unterbarrel weight and some other tweaks I can`t remember now).

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Ok, before I start, I do NOT want this degenerating down into a flame war.

I want to start a modern-day (circa 2003) campaign, which has portions of Shadowrun in it. In particular, the players would be doing runs ala Shadowrun, working either for rival companies, or a 'secret government agency' that is behind the scenes pushing their own agenda.

The players would be tasked to do many of the same things they would do in Shadowrun, but more behind the scenes. They would be doing more covert, as opposed to overt actions, as the law these days tends to be much more strict than in the official setting. (I know, none of this makes much sense, as I'm still toying with the idea in my head).

Now comes the question. I'm trying to decide which system would portray this best. Spycraft seems to fit, if I wanted to go the government route (and possibly the private route), but not if they want to be freelance. D20 Modern would work if they want to go freelance, but I still can't get past the abstraction of the wealth system (maybe I just need to try it in a real game, instead of just reading about it), and the firearm rules.

Since this is modern-day, cybernetics are still some years away, the matrix/VR is still not up to speed, and the Awakening has not happened yet. (Who knows, maybe the characters will live long enough to see it happen with their own eyes).

*shrug* Could be a lame game, but I have to try

Krael

I've been considering how to do a Spycraft/Shadowrun conversion for a while, and I'll put up some of what I've been thinking about.

Spycraft wasn't really a choice. Although the characters get incredibly powerful at later levels, so are the threats, so it balances out. It has the best chase rules, weapon rules, and the funkiest NPC and PrC classes.

Spycraft is light on magic. The mystic rules are powerful, and difficult. Alternate rules have been posted in the Spycraft forums. Do a search and you should find something interesting.

Gadgets and Cyberware - hi-tech is easy, there are so many gadgets to choose from now (and more with the soon-to-be-released Shop Threat Book). Alternate Cyberware rules have been posted on the forums (using experience points to buy them), a quick search should dig them up.

Races - will take a bit of work. See SG-1 on how to do this.

Buying stuff - This is where things could get difficult. You could get around this by re-imagining the roles of the characters. I thoroughly dislike the Wealth mechanic, so haven't even considered it. Each Spycraft character has personal equipment, (the budget allocation of which could be increased), to which could be added personal gadgets. Whoever their employer is, is expected to supply a small amount of equipment for each mission. The characters are mercenaries, of a sort, and work for various employers, sometimes backstabbing goes on, and can have multiple (and conflicting jobs going on at once). There are rules in either Fixer/Pointman or Faceman/Snoop for covering getting 'burned' by the Agency which could become useful.

Anything that I've forgotten?

Hope this helps.

 

[Mythtify]

For the campaign you want to run, I realy think d20 Modern has what you realy need.

the d20 Modern rules are realy pretty good. I like them better than Dungeons and Dragon rules. The massive damage rules allows the game to be deadlier than D&D.

Urban Arcana has great rules for modern magic use, magic items, and fantasy races in a modern setting. They may not have the shadowrun verson of a troll, but I think the UA version of the bugbear would do just as well.

The new mence manual is also a very good resource. I recomend it highly.

Another great book is the Modern players companion from Green Ronin/Game Mechanics.

I like the wealth system a lot. There is just too much money to keep track of in a modern game. With cash, credit cards, checking accounts.....man, keeping a running tab of a characters net worth would be a night mare.

Good luck with the game

 

[Krael]

Reading through all the excellent posts, I think I have to agree with Mythify.

For what I'm planning, I think D20 Modern would work best. I'd like to use the VP/WP system, but the rest of Spycraft doesn't quite fit with what I'm looking for. I guess I'll get over my preconcieved notions on how things in D20M work, and try them out in a real game.

Thank you VERY much for all the responses, it really helped!

Krael

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Reading through all the excellent posts, I think I have to agree with Mythify.

For what I'm planning, I think D20 Modern would work best. I'd like to use the VP/WP system, but the rest of Spycraft doesn't quite fit with what I'm looking for. I guess I'll get over my preconcieved notions on how things in D20M work, and try them out in a real game.

Thank you VERY much for all the responses, it really helped!

Krael

Oh, just one question: Did you try the standard Massive Damage Threshold rules? I personally dislike the Woundpoint/Vitality System, even though this shouldn`t (and wouldn`t )hold you off using it, but before you change a rule, it might be good to test it (unless it is obviosuly stupid in your eyes and possibly the eyes of your players).
Anyway, I would like to know why some people prefer the wound/vitality point
system over the MDT system...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Lugh]

[rabid]
Spycraft is better. Nyah.
[/rabid]

OK, that was probably a rude poke at another thread. Sorry.

Seriously, though, Shadowrun is one system where I would seriously advocate either a) working up your own system (if you're up to that sort of thing), or b) using a serious mix-n-match fest.

Now, the odd thing is that you sound like you're setting the campaign pre-Awakening. No cyberware, no magic, etc. So, what exactly is setting this apart from any standard modern espionage/action game, from a mechanics standpoint. If you're just running Mission Impossible with an unusual list of allies and enemies, I'd run straight Spycraft. That's what it's built for.

But, the more FX you want to bring in, the more you're likely going to want to lean towards d20 Modern. The standard Shadowrun setting is pretty damn close to what d20 Modern was built for.

My solution would be to replace the advanced classes of d20 Modern with the base classes of Spycraft, and use the prestige classes of Spycraft. Lord Zog over on the Spycraft forums has been working on an idea like this.

For equipment, I might suggest the Stargate system. (If you don't have it, $50 is a lot just for a gear system, even though it is a kick-ass book if you like the show.) It focuses on bundles, making gearing up very quick and easy. There are some customization features, and the system keeps track of personal possessions (house, car, parakeet, etc.) in a pretty abstract but usable way.

Just my $.02.