Question about Conceal Spellcasting feat and moving in combat

[fabled]

Hello folks!

I've got a question to share that goes for ruling attack of opportunities in D&D 3.5 combat. There's a feat in Complete Scoundrel called Conceal Spellcasting - it allows you to cast spells unnoticed as long as you win opposed Sleight of hand vs. Spot check. Success in this means also not getting AoO from casting the spell either.

In text reads: "That observer cannot make an attack of opportunity against you for casting, nor can it attempt to counter your spell."

So, my question goes: are you still vulnerable to AoO's from things like moving out of combat and taking actions before or after it (so, casting the spell) or is your opponent supposed to think that you are not doing anyhting as he doesn't spot the spell.

Don't know about you guys, but for me the text seems bit open for questioning and I guess ruling for it be different under some DM's. For me it sounds like you don't get provoked when you start casting the spell - but you still have to take the action (cast the spell), so when you decide to move you still had taken (or are about to take) that action (cast the spell) and provoke AoO's from those situations normally, or? Still, logically thinkin it sounds a bit stupid, but on the other hand making it work other way it sounds bit powerful to me for a single feat (as it would, in addition do the stuff much like of defensive casting or tumble skill).

It is possible, though that I've missed something so give me your thoughts about the rules of AoO's considering given situation.

 

[emoplato]

Hello folks!

I've got a question to share that goes for ruling attack of opportunities in D&D 3.5 combat. There's a feat in Complete Scoundrel called Conceal Spellcasting - it allows you to cast spells unnoticed as long as you win opposed Sleight of hand vs. Spot check. Success in this means also not getting AoO from casting the spell either.

In text reads: "That observer cannot make an attack of opportunity against you for casting, nor can it attempt to counter your spell."

So, my question goes: are you still vulnerable to AoO's from things like moving out of combat and taking actions before or after it (so, casting the spell) or is your opponent supposed to think that you are not doing anyhting as he doesn't spot the spell.

Don't know about you guys, but for me the text seems bit open for questioning and I guess ruling for it be different under some DM's. For me it sounds like you don't get provoked when you start casting the spell - but you still have to take the action (cast the spell), so when you decide to move you still had taken (or are about to take) that action (cast the spell) and provoke AoO's from those situations normally, or? Still, logically thinkin it sounds a bit stupid, but on the other hand making it work other way it sounds bit powerful to me for a single feat (as it would, in addition do the stuff much like of defensive casting or tumble skill).

It is possible, though that I've missed something so give me your thoughts about the rules of AoO's considering given situation.

It just applies to the spell so long as you are successful. It doesn't allow to "feint" movement out of or through someone's area nor does it "deceive" the character in which you know you would provoke normally for other situations. As for spell-like abilities I would say no not because it doesn't include it but their actually needs to be some sort of somatic component involved to actually conceal, as you are using a sleight of hand check.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

My understanding behind the mechanic of an attack of Opportunity is either the one doing the action is suitably distracted and so an opponent can take advantage of that, or the opponent thinks the target is distracted, so they will try to take advantage of that.

If the opponent does not know you are spellcasting, the opponent will not think to take advantage of that moment and try to hit you. However, if you're moving past the opponenet, the opponenet will not try to hit you because they think you are casting a spell, but they will try to hit you because you're entering/exiting a square they threaten.

 

[fabled]

If the opponent does not know you are spellcasting, the opponent will not think to take advantage of that moment and try to hit you. However, if you're moving past the opponenet, the opponenet will not try to hit you because they think you are casting a spell, but they will try to hit you because you're entering/exiting a square they threaten.

Hmmm... yeah that makes sense. So I guess it seems reasonable to think as the spell itself remains unnoticed, the initial combination of using move action and standard action while exiting threatened area still provokes AoO for this matter (maybe to think it as the character still visibly does stuff that it isn't reckognized as spell but it still opens an opportinty for enemy to strike, unlike if you use withdraw action - which is effectively taking movement only during the round).

 

[Jimlock]

I've got a question to share that goes for ruling attack of opportunities in D&D 3.5 combat. There's a feat in Complete Scoundrel called Conceal Spellcasting -

Conceal Spellcasting is not a feat, it is a skill trick. Check out pages 82-83 of the same book to see how they work.

Shortly, in order to get a skill trick you have to spend 2 skill points and meet the requirements.



ConCeal sPellCasTIng [ManIPulaTIon]

You can cast spells without others noticing . Prerequisite: Concentration 1 rank, Sleight of Hand 5 ranks, Spellcraft 1 rank.

Benefit: You can cast a spell without revealing that you are doing so . Make a Sleight of Hand check as part of the action used to cast the spell,

opposed by the Spot checks of onlookers . If you are successful, an observer can’t tell that you’re casting a spell .

That observer cannot make an attack of opportunity against you for casting, nor can it attempt to counter your spell

In text reads: "That observer cannot make an attack of opportunity against you for casting, nor can it attempt to counter your spell."

So, my question goes: are you still vulnerable to AoO's from things like moving out of combat and taking actions before or after it (so, casting the spell) or is your opponent supposed to think that you are not doing anyhting as he doesn't spot the spell.

By your quote (which I have also highlighted above), you avoid AoOs for casting ONLY. You are still vulnerable to every other form of AoO, be that because of movement or some other action.

Don't know about you guys, but for me the text seems bit open for questioning and I guess ruling for it be different under some DM's.

Frankly i don't see how you find the text ambiguous. The text is clear. You win the opposed roll, no AoO for casting, no counterspelling.

For me it sounds like you don't get provoked when you start casting the spell - but you still have to take the action (cast the spell),

Indeed. Where is the text ambiguous in respect to the "action" of casting? It clearly states that "Make a Sleight of Hand check as part of the action used to cast the spell".

No other action required for the opposed roll - the spell takes the same action/time it normally does.

 

[fabled]

@ Jimlock

Thank you as well, that clarifies much. As for the mechanics of the AoO and text itself, I've had quite lenghty break from D&D 3.5 so the text itself and rules for AoO's got me bit confused - so that's one of the reason I decided to ask here.

As for the skill trick stuff goes, I actually haven't thought it that way (and as embarassing it is, never actually double checked the whole stuff in Complete Scoundrel) so I just kinda automatically thought it works like any other stuff that gives you ability to do different stuff in combat (like tactics feats or such that take feat slot in order to work). Your notification helped me much, as I don't need to think anymore on what feat to lose in terms of getting that skill trick, lol.