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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9674171" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I would need a pretty convincing argument to accept less than equality.Are defendants not presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law now? I mean it wouldn't surprise me given what's been happening recently in politics, but I was given to understand this was still true.Both judge and defendant are presumed to be innocent of wrongdoing until valid evidence has been submitted and considered which gives at least reason to investigate, no?I am not speaking of saintliness. Now you're the one injecting assumptions into what I've said.Innocent until the evidence suggests otherwise is the standard I prefer. I would accept, in at least an abstract way, another having the standard of guilt until evidence suggests otherwise, since that is at least treating all parties by the same standard. But I would not, and do not, accept a standard which claims that the GM is presumed innocent until conclusively proven guilty, while players are presumed guilty and constantly subject to suspicion and distrust because you know the second your guard is down they'll cheat and cheat and cheat until they get caught. Which is very much what Lanefan described.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9674171, member: 6790260"] I would need a pretty convincing argument to accept less than equality. Are defendants not presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law now? I mean it wouldn't surprise me given what's been happening recently in politics, but I was given to understand this was still true. Both judge and defendant are presumed to be innocent of wrongdoing until valid evidence has been submitted and considered which gives at least reason to investigate, no? I am not speaking of saintliness. Now [I]you're[/I] the one injecting assumptions into what I've said. Innocent until the evidence suggests otherwise is the standard I prefer. I would accept, in at least an abstract way, another having the standard of guilt until evidence suggests otherwise, since that is at least treating all parties by the same standard. But I would not, and do not, accept a standard which claims that the GM is presumed innocent until conclusively proven guilty, while players are presumed guilty and constantly subject to suspicion and distrust because you know the [I]second[/I] your guard is down they'll cheat and cheat and cheat until they get caught. Which is very much what Lanefan described. [/QUOTE]

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