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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9694246" data-attributes="member: 6785785">No. You really need to stop twisting things people say to justify your pearl clutching.I said that when we look at someone attempting a task, ignoring the context of the situation... why they're attempting the task and related details... seems delusional. Obviously whatever consequences may occur depend entirely on the context. No, want has nothing to do with it. The real world doesn't work with dice rolls and a GM making decisions. But it has stakes beyond simply the picking of the lock. There are other potential consequences. Not at all... I showed how it could have a consequence other than just an unopened pickle jar. But as far as games go, I wouldn't expect a game to even worry about such mundanity, or if it did come up for some reason, I wouldn't bother gating the opening of the jar with a roll. I'd just say "You open the jar... now what?" Mitigating risk is one thing. Refusing to proceed unless all risk can be mitigated? That's another. You've described plenty of instances of play where players have been less cautious. You've even advocated for PvP with "Let them fight, says I" even though this would obviously be against their best interests. If your game actually grinds to a halt once danger rears its head then I'd say it's probably the worst D&D game ever. I don't expect that's the case, though, so why you're trying to argue this is beyond me. But this just displays a continued misunderstanding of the idea. If we took a session I run of Stonetop and one you run of your version of D&D, then yes, a roll in Stonetop is likely weightier than one in D&D. But there will almost certainly be fewer rolls. If the fiction suggests little to no chance of dangerous consequences, then I'm not going to ask for a roll. I'm only going to call for a roll in Stonetop when there's something at risk. If there's no risk at all, then I'm simply going to allow the character to succeed. Also, the idea that if a character fails, they're getting "hosed" is just... I don't know... it seems adversarial even for D&D. Okay. It's a consequence has been my point. You guys are fighting tooth and nail to avoid saying what's incredibly obvious. So Thief A is in lock-picking class with his guildmaster. They're practicing picking a lock. Thief B is in a dark alley about 20 feet from a well-lit street. It's late at night, but there may still be people about, certainly the watch is still on patrol. There's a light rain, but it's only a little more than a drizzle. Thief B is trying to pick the lock of a merchant's office so he can steal some documents for a rival merchant. He'll also see if there's anything of value that can be taken. According to you, these situations are identical? Sorry, but this isn't accurate at all. It doesn't matter whether her agreement was based on me passing the test or not.</blockquote>

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