scholz said:Under coup de grace it suggests that helpless characters have 0 effective Dex.
That would be a -5 Reflex save. Maybe that is a good rule of thumb for saves under those conditions. Even reasonably high level people would notice that.
Crothian said:Isn't there a section in the MM where it talks about attributes that creatures with a 0 dex don't get reflex saves? I may be wrong in that, not sure.
Alzrius said:
I think you may be thinking of the part where it talks about attributes that have a rating of "-". Those attributes, for the most part, have the creature automatically failing the keyed saving throw (except for a Con score of "-" where you are immune to those effects unless they affect objects, in which case you save normally). That would be because a score of "-" isn't 0.
Or I could be completely wrong, I'm not sure.