D&D 5E (2014) Rests & Healing Homebrew/House Rules Suggestions/Feedback [+]

[Cap'n Kobold]

Why is that? Fighters, Monks, and Rogues benefit from the shorter short rest, and aside from the Warlock, I don't see how it favors Spellcasters, in particular Wizards or Sorcerers.

(I missed a chunk of my post out the first time it went up: a lot is dependent upon how the shorter rest time affects daily attrition due to random encounters.)

But overall my train of thought was this: If you can hole up somewhere safe for 20 mins, its often safe for another 40. Not always the case, but IME the shorter time is the lesser of the two changes.
(Hence why the random encounters and their relationship to short rests is so important.)

I believe that the greater of the two changes, is the reduction on overall recovery over the day. I don't think deliberately going to low HP to maximise the "return to bloodied" effect of long rests is a good or likely tactic. Likewise most characters are going to want to start a day at close to full HP.
The requirement to spend hit dice for healing rather than normal long rest recovery (plus the ability to spend HD on other things) is going to overall reduce the HD and also total daily healing available for characters.

Reduced Hit Dice available over the day means fewer short rests.
Reduced total HP over the day means that those classes whose hit points are one of their main resources are going to be weaker, and the party as a whole will want to long rest more often, to recover HD and healing spells.
This is mostly of benefit to long-rest-based classes, although divine casters will probably be under greater pressure to spend more resources on healing.

 

[TwoSix]

The most obvious play here is that a party is going to spend down all of their remaining Hit Die on a Short Rest to heal up; then Long Rest to regain all Hit Die, and then take another Short Rest after an hour to finish healing up, and then start the adventuring day.

 

[el-remmen]

The most obvious play here is that a party is going to spend down all of their remaining Hit Die on a Short Rest to heal up; then Long Rest to regain all Hit Die, and then take another Short Rest after an hour to finish healing up, and then start the adventuring day.

I have considered this and is part of the reason why I put the 1 hour gaps between finishing one and starting another. That may not be enough of an obstacle, though generally in my games time can really matter - and when it doesn't matter, then the extra healing won't really matter much either? Maybe?

Not sure, still gotta think on this and if it is really a problem (I only care about rule exploits so much as they are likely to be a problem with my group and not a generalized platonic ideal of a player). I am open to suggestions from others.

 

[Sorinth]

So one of the main issues with slow/incomplete healing is that the players end up designating someone to be the healer and they end up having to save most of their spell slots for healing spells in order to top everyone up. And as a result in combat it can often be kind of boring since they don't want to use levelled spells and most classes/subclasses have little to support that type of combat style.

I think you'll want to either limit how many spell slots they get back on LR so that the healer can't just spend all their spells to heal everyone right before a LR where they get back all their slots. Or, consider capping the effectiveness of healing spells, limiting it to going up to bloodied would return things to the normal 5e balance, but you could also go to say 75% of max HP to try and find a middle ground. Or alternatively healing spells could require the target to spend Hit Dice so the main benefit of healing spells is that it's an action rather then a SR.

One other thing to keep in mind is that recurring temp HP are going to be very strong under your houserules. So you'll need to watch out or do something about things like Twilight Cleric since they completely break what you are trying to accomplish with this lower/slower health.

 

[TwoSix]

I have considered this and is part of the reason why I put the 1 hour gaps between finishing one and starting another. That may not be enough of an obstacle, though generally in my games time can really matter - and when it doesn't matter, then the extra healing won't really matter much either? Maybe?

Not sure, still gotta think on this and if it is really a problem (I only care about rule exploits so much as they are likely to be a problem with my group and not a generalized platonic ideal of a player). I am open to suggestions from others.

I don't have an issue with the gap period; I just see two general ways this will play out.

1) If the party can take 8 hours to rest safely, they can also probably spend 10.7 hours to do SR+gap+LR+gap+SR. And if you can safely do something that will give you more resources, why wouldn't you? Especially since it doesn't take any more table time to do the 10.7 hr time skip as opposed to an 8 hr time skip.

2) If the party isn't in a position to take an 8 hr rest without possibly being ambushed/random encountered, they're even more incentivized to take that SR beforehand and heal up before the probable ambush.

 

[el-remmen]

What if I limit how many HD can be spent in one Short Rest to 1/2 level? So a 6th level character can use 3 HD max during a short rest?

 

[W'rkncacnter]

The most obvious play here is that a party is going to spend down all of their remaining Hit Die on a Short Rest to heal up; then Long Rest to regain all Hit Die, and then take another Short Rest after an hour to finish healing up, and then start the adventuring day.

...wouldn't they just spend the hit dice to heal during the long rest? since they can do that anyway? what's the point of the second short rest?

I have considered this

why? isn't the second short rest redundant?

 

[TwoSix]

What if I limit how many HD can be spent in one Short Rest to 1/2 level? So a 6th level character can use 3 HD max during a short rest?

The core issue remains that the Long Rest is recharging all the HD; I'm incentivized to spend them if possible before starting a long rest.

The only counter-incentives would be

1) a case where time is restricted such that there's a meaningful distinction between 8 and 9.3 hrs (SR+gap+LR).
2) The party is near maximum at hit points + SR resources, but low on LR resources.
3) The value of a preserved HD in protecting the party during an ambush outweighs the gained HP + SR resources from a Short Rest. (I don't know all your house rules around spending HD on offense/defense, but it seems possible this could be true. In standard 5e, it wouldn't be.)

 

[TwoSix]

...wouldn't they just spend the hit dice to heal during the long rest? since they can do that anyway? what's the point of the second short rest?

why? isn't the second short rest redundant?

I had missed the verbiage that they were allowed to spend HD gained at the end of a LR for hit points concurrently with the LR ending. In that case, certainly a 2nd SR would be meaningless.

 

[el-remmen]

why? isn't the second short rest redundant?

By “this” I just meant stacking short and long rests close together, not that specific long rest sandwich, which indeed would be redundant.