Retraining Able Learner

[Herzog]

I have recently convinced my group to use the retraining rules from PH2, and one of the feats that I would like to take (instead of the one I have currently at lvl 1) is the Able Learner Feat.
Mainly because I intend to take a prestige class (AT) that has one of my main skills (perform) as cross class.
However, over the last 7 levels I have taken ranks in several cross class skills (mostly as a step towards a PrC that I later abandoned again)

How would/should retro-actively adding a feat at first level impact already taken ranks?

 

[Darkwolf71]

Short answer: For every cross class skill rank you had taken you would 'get back' 1 Skill Point. Which could be spent as you see fit, though I could see a DM ruling that you could not spend them in Skills you did not already have.

 

[irdeggman]

Short answer: For every cross class skill rank you had taken you would 'get back' 1 Skill Point. Which could be spent as you see fit, though I could see a DM ruling that you could not spend them in Skills you did not already have.

Except that you would basically have to rebuild a level at a time and couldn't dump all of the regained skill points to be spent in a manner that might mess up the max ranks per level system.

See the section on feat retraining and meeting prerequisites or the skill retraining section.

In reality it shouldn't make much of a difference but I usually find it better to do a level at a time build of my PCs to make sure things work out fine and logically. Which is the implied method under feat retraining.

 

[hornedturtle]

I think it would work like increasing your int the increase doesn't work retroactively. Or like taking a level of a class that has a class skill that you have put ranks in as a cross class the skill points you've spent don't change.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think it would work like increasing your int the increase doesn't work retroactively. Or like taking a level of a class that has a class skill that you have put ranks in as a cross class the skill points you've spent don't change.

But if you take Able Learner at level 1 (I think that's the only level you can take it at), there is no "retroactive." You retrained a level 1 feat to be Able Learner. You effectively had it for all your levels. Of course, I haven't actually read the retraining rules (I just let players swap things they find useless/unfun, no big deal), so I'm arguing from common sense alone.

I'd agree with the first responder. You get 1 skill point back for every cross class rank you bought. I'd even allow you to invest in previously untrained skills with them, because otherwise if you had been keeping "max" ranks in all your skills (including half max for cross class skills), you'd have no where to put those newly free ranks. All your skills would already either be maxed out or completely untrained.

 

[Herzog]

I lean towards the comparison with the int increase myself.

Just wanted to see if maybe there was some rule to the contrary.

Retraining as written is actually part of character improvement.
It does not re-write history, you learn something new and to do that have to 'unlearn' something old.

Also, you can't retrain skill points. you retrain ranks. Meaning that for skill points spent on cross class skills you only get half of them back.
(and you can only spend them on class skills)

With those precedents, I think no retroactive skillpoints....

Edit: on the other hand, I just read substitution level retaining DOES allow spending extra skillpoints, if any. Confused.

 

[Derro]

the retraining rules from PH2, and one of the feats that I would like to take (instead of the one I have currently at lvl 1) is the Able Learner Feat.

How would/should retro-actively adding a feat at first level impact already taken ranks?

I don't think you can even take Able Learner.

Prereqs: Human or Doppelganger only; 1st Level only

It's a trait not a learned ability. Like Forgotten Realms regional feats it's more to do with an inborn talent or upbringing.

That's just my GM-hammer talking though?

 

[Herzog]

mmm. good point.

The feat retraining rules specify:

If the new feat has prerequisites, not only
must your character meet them in his current state, but you
must also be able to show that he met them at the time you
chose the previous feat.

I have always interpreted this as: You need to meet the requirements at the level you are retraining this.
However, with your comment I realise it can also read: you need to fulfill the requirements both at the level you retrain it AND at the current level.
Which would mean no retraining First level only feats.

food for tought.....