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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Haffrung Helleyes" data-source="post: 3882315" data-attributes="member: 1068">I really feel that searching should get a new mechanic in 4E.  Being able to take 20 reduces searching to a certainty.. the DM knows the PC search skill, so he either sets a search DC high enough that taking 20 won't get it (in which case why bother with putting the treasure in the adventure at all), or the PCs automatically find the items, assuming they clear out the lair and have plenty of time to search.  Searching is really only interesting from a gamist perspective in time-critical situations.It was more of a matter of luck and player skill in earlier editions.  In my opinion, 4E should try to capture this element in some way.3E compounds the problem with the character wealth by level guidelines.  A player can't expect to get lucky and find better loot with a high search skill, because the 3E design paradigm dictates that a low level character can never get lucky and make a huge score , and conversely that a party should expect to have a certain amount of wealth at each level, regardless of how good it is at searching.  So, assuming that the GM is adhering to these guidelines , searching becomes rather meaningless.Ken</blockquote>