Savage Species - 1 HD ECLs (error ? )

[BryonD]

Is anyone aware of any comment or errata regarding the tabulated ECLs for 1 HD creatures?

It appears that they failed to take the HD back out of the calculation.

For example, the first monster on the list is Bugbear, ECL = 4. The example bubear barbarian1 is listed as ECL 5, which makes sense.

But the high elf starting ECL is listed as 1. Which means a High Elf Barbarian1 would be ECL 2, which clearly is not true.

The same error appear to apply for Drow, Asimar and Tiefling, all of which are 1HD and have ECLs 1 greater than the FRCS values.

Is this just an across the board error of +1 ECL for all 1 HD creatures?

Thanks

 

[Knight Otu]

I think you are mixing up Level Adjustment and ECL.

ECL is the Character Level plus Monster Hit Dice plus Level Adjustment. Looking over the Examples you gave, everything seems correct.

On a sidenote, both terms date back to the FRCS, where the rules were first clarified. However, ECL caught on as a term for both things. It seems that this now comes back to haunt us.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Actually, it mentions somewhere in the book that 1 HD humanoids usually have the 1 HD replaced with the HD for the class they take. So a 1st level hobgoblin fighter has 1d10 HD, but is considered lvl 2. That's just standard for 1 HD humanoids.

 

[Hardhead]

Actually, LA basically meant "how much you add to the character level to get the ECL." Now, LA is independant of any hit dice, including monster hit dice. So the definition has changed.

 

[BryonD]

I think you are mixing up Level Adjustment and ECL.

ECL is the Character Level plus Monster Hit Dice plus Level Adjustment. Looking over the Examples you gave, everything seems correct.

On a sidenote, both terms date back to the FRCS, where the rules were first clarified. However, ECL caught on as a term for both things. It seems that this now comes back to haunt us.

I don't think so.

Are you saying a High Elf Barbarian 1 is ECL2?

Are you not supposed to use the ECLs directly?

 

[Knight Otu]

Are you saying a High Elf Barbarian 1 is ECL2?

No, it is ECL 1. The level adjustment is +0. The ECL of 1 means that a 1st level high elf is effectively a 1st level character.

Are you not supposed to use the ECLs directly?

The ECL is used for experience and I think suggested treasure. You do not add it to the level of the character.

 

[BryonD]

Actually, it mentions somewhere in the book that 1 HD humanoids usually have the 1 HD replaced with the HD for the class they take. So a 1st level hobgoblin fighter has 1d10 HD, but is considered lvl 2. That's just standard for 1 HD humanoids.

Right, this is how I understood it. But that is not at all clear from Table 2-2.

The way you phrased it kinda implies that you could be a hobgoblin fighter 1 AND keep the hobgoblin HD plus the fighter HD. Then using the Hobgoblin ECL of 2 you would be a level 3 character. But I have never heard any version that went that way. And the skill points column shows that they did not mean that here either.

 

[BryonD]

No, it is ECL 1. The level adjustment is +0.


The ECL is used for experience and I think suggested treasure. You do not add it to the level of the character.

???

But the level adjustment for a bugbear is +1.

Any way you slice it, the ECL for the Bugbear and the ECL for the wild elf (and all other 1HD) don't follow the same logic.

 

[Knight Otu]

But the level adjustment for a bugbear is +1.

The bugbear has 3 Humanoid Hit Dice. Without class levels, that adds to an ECL of 4.

 

[BryonD]

The bugbear has 3 Humanoid Hit Dice. Without class levels, that adds to an ECL of 4.

Correct. And a classed High Elf has 0 Humanoid Hit Dice and a level adjustment of 0 for an ECL of 0. Table 2-2 lists the ECL as 1.