Savage Species: Half-Ogre ECL?

[MacMathan]

I just got Savage Species ths weekend and I think it is great for the most part. I have a question though. Does anyone else think the ECL for Half Ogres is low at +1? It seems to me by the guidelines laid out in the previous chapters that they would be:

+1 for 10' reach
+1 for natural armor
+1 for unbalanced stats

so at least +3 ECL. Am I missing something?

Thanks,
-MacMathan

 

[Kraedin]

I assume they compared to the ogre, which is level adjustment +2.

 

[Pax]

Look at the OGre:

+10 str, -2 dex, +4 con, -4 int, +0 wis, -4 cha. Natural armor of +5; reach.

Now the Half-Ogre:

+6 str, -2 dex, +2 con, +0 int, +0 wis, -2 cha. Natural armor of +4; reach.

The difference is, the Half-ogre loses 4 points of strength and 2 points of constitution, to get 4 points of intelligence and 2 points of charisma. Then it loses a point of natural armor.

When they chose the Half-Orc's attributes, they decided Strengthw as worth more than either intelligence or charisma -- in fact, that ALL physicals are worth more than mental attributes.

So the Half-Ogre loses 6 points of physical attributes, to gain ... 6 points of supposedly-lesser-value mental attributes. And it loses 1 point of natural armor.

I'd say, yes, that warrants a reduction in comparative Leel Adjustment. Since the Ogre is a +2 adjustment race (plus it's HD, of course), a lesser adjustment is either +1, or +0. +0 obviouslywould be broken, so +1 it is.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Man, I SO prefer the Half-Ogre we made on these boards a while back as an ECL 0 race. Much more balanced; I actually use them in my campaign as a standard player race.

 

[jRocket]

Link?

 

[Kraedin]

+6 str, -2 dex, +2 con, +0 int, +0 wis, -2 cha. Natural armor of +4; reach.

Actually, its +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int and Cha, natural armor +4, Large-size.

 

[MacMathan]

Okay I see what you guys are saying about the ogre being +2.

I guess a better question is do you think the Half Ogre is balanced?

How do you think it compares with the other +1 races?

I am having a hard time seeing the balance when I compare a 2nd level standard race barbarian or fighter with a 1st level Half Ogre version of the same class.

Thanks,
-MacMathan

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

They're only +2 and +1?

I have to get my hands on Savage Species. There better be new concepts that I'm unaware of because this looks insanely powerful for a fighter-type.

 

[Artoomis]

Actually, its +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int and Cha, natural armor +4, Large-size.

Assuming this is correct, you get (compared to human, not to Ogre) +6 physical stats, - 4 mental, Nat Armor +4.

Sounds like +2 to me. +1 for stats, +1 for Natural Armor. I don't know why it would be listed as +1. Nor do I know why an Ogre would be only +2.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Well, Savage Species actually works through the Ogre as an example, and rules that, while +3 ECL seems fair by the numbers, when you compare an Ogre (4 HD) with 1 level of, say, Barbarian - total ECL 8 - to an 8th level Barbarian, the 8th level Barbarian is clearly superior. Whereas a 7th level Barbarian seems to be a more debateable match. So they felt +2 ECL was the way to go.

I suspect that other posters are therefore correct, and the +1 ECL for Half-Ogres was to make it "less powerful" than the full Ogre.

But I agree it's an awful lot of power for a mere +1 level - I mean, would you rather have these abilities, or an Earth Genasi? I think it's pretty obvious.

Maybe the problem isn't with the Half-Ogre, but with all the other races we've been "told" are worth a +1 level adjustment - they need to be upgraded or downgraded to be balanced.