Savage Species ??

[Khaalis]

Has anyone else notice that all of the ECL's given in the Forgotten Realms book have been up'ed by one or more?

Ex:
Bugbear: in FR = ECL 3 / on SS = ECL 4
Trol: in FR = ECL 8 / on SS = ECL 11

Does anyone else wonder/worry about the discrepencies between "official" products?

What are peoples thoughts on the "Special Ruling" for 1 Hit Die racial types? Why do only 1 Hit Die racial types get this advantage?

Just my first few thoughts as I begin to devour the information in Savage Species.

Is anyone else using these rules to HR new racial classes?

 

[SylverFlame]

I haven't read SS yet. (A better acronym than that has to be thought up, und schnell .)

Anyhoo, ECL is a real mess mechanic. Wizards has admitted that it's more of a "rough guess", just like CR. That would be why there is a discrepancy. It's also why Tieflings end up as an ECL +1 race. (I don't agree with this obviously.)

 

[Khaalis]

Just a quick FYI: Tieflings are ECL 2 in SS.

 

[Crothian]

Well, it's better then them having the ecl's too low.

 

[SylverFlame]

Okay, ecl +2 is going too far. Are they beefed from their FR incarnation or not? If not, then it doesn't make a lot of sense. ECL +1 I could at least understand.

The only reasoning that would make sense is that they want to dissaude PC's from playing Monsterous chars.

 

[Khaalis]

Tieflings at ECL 2 gain all the special abilities as normal but are considered to have 1d8HD, +2 to all saves, and 2+INT skills points.

 

[The Iron Mark]

*sigh*Yes Teiflings are ECL +2, but that is because they have a LA of +1, and 1 HD. When a 1 HD creature gets lvls, they replace that HD with the class HD. Thus, a lvl 1 fighter Tiefling is a total ECL of 2.

 

[SylverFlame]

Okay Iron Mark, you just lost me. How is a tiefling ECL +2 if they a level 1 fighter tiefling is considered level2. THe way I understand teh ECL system is that if the character adds a number to their Character LEvel, that number is the ECL. Therefore the tiefling you described would be ECL +1.

Am I really lost in my understanding, or was there a typo?

 

[Khaalis]

Basically they have clarified the system to include the separation of Hit Die and Level Adjustment to find the Starting ECL.

Thus the Tiefling is ECL 2.

Effective Character Level is a modifier used to find the Character's total Character Level.

Example (using High Hit Die type):
Bugbear Fighter1 = 5 total Character Levels
- Fighter 1 is obviously 1 character level.
- A Bugbear is ECL 4 (3 Hit Dice +1 Level Adjustment*)

* Level Adjustment is an adjustment due to the relative power of a creature of its Hit Dice vs other creatures of the same Hit Dice.


Now the Tiefling seems odd because it follows the SPECIAL "1 Hit Die Rule"

Tiefling Fighter 1 = 2 or 3 Character Levels

It is 2 or 3 because you can either choose to Keep or Drop the 1 Hit Die of a Tiefling.

Tieflings are ECL 2 = 1 Hit Die + 1 Level Adjustment

2nd Character Level:
Drop the benefits of the 1st Hit Die of being a Tiefling to Substitute 1st Level from Fighter and modify by +1 Level Adjustment. (This is like the old system of simply saying +1 ECL but saying just +1 ECL doesnt account for the fact that Tieflings actually do have a natural Hit Die.)

3rd Character Level:
Keep the first Hit Die form Tiefling and then add the Fighter Level.

Hope that helps. (Im only half awake.)

 

[Gez]

I haven't read SS yet. (A better acronym than that has to be thought up, und schnell .)

Sasp ?