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<blockquote data-quote="Al" data-source="post: 142482" data-attributes="member: 2486">They are now too weak, with the exception of Improved Sleep.Greater Sleep is clearly weaker than Cloudkill.&nbsp; Compare:Greater Sleep has no save to those 2HD or less.Cloudkill no save to those 3HD or less.Greater Sleep allows a save to those of up to 8HDCloudkill allows a save to those of up to 6HDGreater Sleep has no effect of those of more than 8HD.Cloudkill does d10 damage per round on those of more than 6HD.Oh yes, and Cloudkill acts like fog cloud.But wait: doesn't Cloudkill KILL its victims, whilst Sleep just send them to sleep.&nbsp; The power levels don't really compare anymore, and that's without Cloudkill/Forcecage or Cloudkill/Small Room combos.&nbsp; Greater Sleep is at best 4th level in power.And what of True Sleep?Even more weak relative to level.It is almost certainly weaker than Mass Suggestion (hey, you can suggest that they go to sleep), as it is less flexible.&nbsp; It can initially only affect 13d4 HD of creatures, i.e. 32 HD therefore around three 10HD creatures.&nbsp; Except of course, you are 13th level at least.&nbsp; Therefore, MOST creatures you are fighting have MORE than 10HD.&nbsp; Hence, this spell is nearly useless.&nbsp; Sleep's cap works because most enemies of characters throwing 1st level spells have 4HD or fewer.&nbsp; Enemies of those throwing 7th level spells tend to have more than 10HD.&nbsp;&nbsp; True Sleep is probably at best 6th level, and perhaps even as low as 5th.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Al, post: 142482, member: 2486"] They are now too weak, with the exception of Improved Sleep. Greater Sleep is clearly weaker than Cloudkill. Compare: Greater Sleep has no save to those 2HD or less. Cloudkill no save to those 3HD or less. Greater Sleep allows a save to those of up to 8HD Cloudkill allows a save to those of up to 6HD Greater Sleep has no effect of those of more than 8HD. Cloudkill does d10 damage per round on those of more than 6HD. Oh yes, and Cloudkill acts like fog cloud. But wait: doesn't Cloudkill KILL its victims, whilst Sleep just send them to sleep. The power levels don't really compare anymore, and that's without Cloudkill/Forcecage or Cloudkill/Small Room combos. Greater Sleep is at best 4th level in power. And what of True Sleep? Even more weak relative to level. It is almost certainly weaker than Mass Suggestion (hey, you can suggest that they go to sleep), as it is less flexible. It can initially only affect 13d4 HD of creatures, i.e. 32 HD therefore around three 10HD creatures. Except of course, you are 13th level at least. Therefore, MOST creatures you are fighting have MORE than 10HD. Hence, this spell is nearly useless. Sleep's cap works because most enemies of characters throwing 1st level spells have 4HD or fewer. Enemies of those throwing 7th level spells tend to have more than 10HD. True Sleep is probably at best 6th level, and perhaps even as low as 5th. [/QUOTE]

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