Scimitar Dance + Frost Weapons

[Iron Sky]

So, here's a debate we had back when I first got Scimitar Dance with my Stormwarden that has come up again now that we're picking up that campaign again after a long hiatus:

If you make and attack using Frost Scimitars set to do cold damage and miss (triggering Scimitar Dance), is the damage from Scimitar Dance cold damage or not?

Scimitar Dance: "If you miss with a melee attack with a scimitar and you wouldn't otherwise still deal damage on the miss, you deal damage to your original target equal to your Dexterity modifier. This damage receives no modifier or other benefits you normally gain on weapon damage."

Frost Scimitar's relevant bit: "All damage dealt by this weapon is cold damage."

This makes a huge difference when combined with the Wintertouched/Lasting Frost combo.

One of the guys in the group is arguing that the italicized part of Scimitar Dance and that the benefit is coming from a feat means that the miss damage wouldn't be considered cold.

The other argument is that it essentially gives all powers a "Miss: Dex damage" so that all normal keywords of the power would apply.

Anyone have this come up before and/or have some ideas?

 

[Nightson]

"This damage receives no modifier or other benefits you normally gain on weapon damage." This seems to me to be trying to insure you're just getting the dex damage, and interpreting the rules as the damage being cold makes the feat significantly stronger, my inclination is to rule against it.

 

[Sanzuo]

I'm pretty sure it means you do the extra cold damage but only when you are attacking yourself.

 

[Obryn]

I wouldn't consider it cold damage for the same reason I wouldn't consider a fighter's Cleave attack with a flaming axe, fire damage.

You haven't hit the target with your weapon. You're dealing damage to them. The damage is done by the power or the feat, not the weapon.

-O

 

[DracoSuave]

Weapon damage is specificly the [W] part of the power. Frost weapons apply, however, to all damage dealt with that weapon, which is all damage dealt by a power with the weapon keyword using it as an accessory.

So, yes, it does apply as it is not a modifier to weapon damage.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

But the feat doesn't allow any "benefits" - are you saying having it do cold damage isn't a benefit?

 

[DracoSuave]

But the feat doesn't allow any "benefits" - are you saying having it do cold damage isn't a benefit?

It does not allow any benefits you normally gain on weapon damage.

This isn't a benefit that is weapon damage related.

It would also trigger abilities that worked on dropping enemies, for instance.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

also i find it hard to justify that the damage yu deal on hit is all cold (no slashing) but if you just barely hit it does slashing damage. (untyped).

 

[Iron Sky]

I wouldn't consider it cold damage for the same reason I wouldn't consider a fighter's Cleave attack with a flaming axe, fire damage.

You haven't hit the target with your weapon. You're dealing damage to them. The damage is done by the power or the feat, not the weapon.

-O

What about the miss damage on Reaping Strike (Fighter at Will, do Str damage on a miss)?

 

[DracoSuave]

I wouldn't consider it cold damage for the same reason I wouldn't consider a fighter's Cleave attack with a flaming axe, fire damage.

You haven't hit the target with your weapon. You're dealing damage to them. The damage is done by the power or the feat, not the weapon.

-O

Said power involved has the weapon keyword. By definition, you are dealing damage with the weapon.