Shadowdark Shadowdark Discussion Thread [+]

[zakael19]

I think that since Shadowdark embraces the OSR idea of "clever play" at least to some degree, there is value in NOT gating these things behind class abilities.

SD is also clear that “wizards can detect magic, thieves are skilled at thief things” etc.

 

[Fenris-77]

I think that since Shadowdark embraces the OSR idea of "clever play" at least to some degree, there is value in NOT gating these things behind class abilities.

In this case I'd say both yes and no. I do think that some elements of the idea should be more widely available and not tied to a specific class. It doesn't fulfill the core task of being at least in part a mystery mechanic otherwise.. However, I also think that having a class that is the 'expert' class in interacting with the mechanic is also cool. So that class does things there that the other folks can't.

My design flow there would be to do the base mechanic first, then design the class and extend the mechanic, and then go back to the mechanic to even things out and smooth off the rough edges.

 

[Reynard]

In this case I'd say both yes and no. I do think that some elements of the idea should be more widely available and not tied to a specific class. It doesn't fulfill the core task of being at least in part a mystery mechanic otherwise.. However, I also think that having a class that is the 'expert' class in interacting with the mechanic is also cool. So that class does things there that the other folks can't.

Sure. I was just saying that I think it is more interesting if whatever residual signs of magic remain are detectable by anyone. Specialization is good.

My design flow there would be to do the base mechanic first, then design the class and extend the mechanic, and then go back to the mechanic to even things out and smooth off the rough edges.

That sounds like a good strategy.

 

[Fenris-77]

Sure. I was just saying that I think it is more interesting if whatever residual signs of magic remain are detectable by anyone. Specialization is good.

That sounds like a good strategy.

This whole idea gets easier once you add in traces of certain kind of monsters, mostly extradimensional things I think. Those physical traces can be read by anyone. The presence of recent and very powerful magic also might be read by anyone if only at a basic level. Spellcasters will have better skills in reading the traces and will be able to read fainter traces. That's the basic broad strokes take that I'm working with.

 

[Reynard]

This whole idea gets easier once you add in traces of certain kind of monsters, mostly extradimensional things I think. Those physical traces can be read by anyone. The presence of recent and very powerful magic also might be read by anyone if only at a basic level. Spellcasters will have better skills in reading the traces and will be able to read fainter traces. That's the basic broad strokes take that I'm working with.

I suppose that means there are potentially magic users particularly good at masking those residual signs. Maybe you can't eliminate them entirely but maybe you can disguise them as something else. "Elementary, dear Watson, you see it was never an invisible stalker, but a wizard using Copperfield's Distraction!"

 

[Fenris-77]

I suppose that means there are potentially magic users particularly good at masking those residual signs. Maybe you can't eliminate them entirely but maybe you can disguise them as something else. "Elementary, dear Watson, you see it was never an invisible stalker, but a wizard using Copperfield's Distraction!"

Possibly. But I don't think I'd start there. If people can mask their signature then why are we even making the system? I'd make messing about with one's signature a very difficult thing, if it's possible at all. The information being handed out by the system is usefully evocative in very broad ways but only directly actionable in specific and pretty narrow circumstances. I'm not sure I want to shrink that set of cirumstances.

 

[Fenris-77]

OK, so I'm going to do this thing. I wanted something like it in my setting anyway. The idea will be built around these two core ideas:

Residuum. The lingering traces left by spell casting. These can take many forms, but are usually some combination of smells, sounds, sights, tastes, emotions and other sense data. Different kinds of spells have different flavours of residuum. Residuum varies in intensity depending on the power of the spell that left it.

Another sort of residuum are the traces left by certain extra-dimensional beings. Some monsters, like demons and elementals, are not native to our plane and their presence leaves behind physical trace evidence (for example, demons might leave traces of sulphur behind them, as they do in the show Supernatural).

Imagos. The magical fingerprint left by every spellcaster when they cast a spell. Like residuum, this will generally be some unique combination of sounds, sights, smells, emotions, and other sense data. The imagos of a spellcaster may develop over their career, but will always be identifiable to someone familiar with it.

 

[Reynard]

OK, so I'm going to do this thing. I wanted something like it in my setting anyway. The idea will be built around these two core ideas:

Residuum. The lingering traces left by spell casting. These can take many forms, but are usually some combination of smells, sounds, sights, tastes, emotions and other sense data. Different kinds of spells have different flavours of residuum. Residuum varies in intensity depending on the power of the spell that left it.

Another sort of residuum are the traces left by certain extra-dimensional beings. Some monsters, like demons and elementals, are not native to our plane and their presence leaves behind physical trace evidence (for example, demons might leave traces of sulphur behind them, as they do in the show Supernatural).

Imagos. The magical fingerprint left by every spellcaster when they cast a spell. Like residuum, this will generally be some unique combination of sounds, sights, smells, emotions, and other sense data. The imagos of a spellcaster may develop over their career, but will always be identifiable to someone familiar with it.

Oh, cool, I like that each caster has their own "scent."

Do you plan writing up residuum for each spell and creature, using tables, or something else?

 

[Fenris-77]

Oh, cool, I like that each caster has their own "scent."

Do you plan writing up residuum for each spell and creature, using tables, or something else?

Sort of. I don't want to get too detailed, partially because I'm trying to keep things as system agnostic as possible while still using SD as the base. If you asked me now I'm going to do random tables for spell 'types'. So a generic table, and one for fire, one for necromancy, etc etc. At a minimum I want the mechanic to identify roughly the power of magic used and perhaps it's general type (something the D&D magic types, invocation etc). I think this will be done via tiered success with a pretty low base DC and success increments above revealing more and more detail. The top tier of success might be the specific spell or something close, but I don't think that requires bespoke residuum for hundreds of different spell (which, frankly, sounds like a huge pain in the ass).

Creatures will be done by type too, and initially I'm going to focus on extra planar beings - i.e. where magic is used to summon them and they are also to some extent inherently magical beings. I'm probably going to not cover undead because that's a silo I'll leave for the Necromancer.

 

[Fenris-77]

What I have for types in my WiP right now is this

Generica - everything except the following
Foetor - demons, demonic magic, and demonic summoning (also the chaotic catchall)
Naturae - elementals, elemental spells, elemental summoning
Memento Mori - necromantic magic (but not undead)
Ostia - dimensional spells, teleport, other summoning

Each table will have four columns to generate elements - smells, tastes, sounds, and emotions (emotions are more for Imago generation, but everything in one table).