Shadowdark Shadowdark Discussion Thread [+]

[overgeeked]

I'm toying with some alternate luck rules for SD, based on the Willpower mechanic from Fleaux!, which is essentially a usage die that does more or less the same thing, but there are penalties if the die runs out. Does stepping that die up sound about as cool as getting a luck token? Obvious UD indexes a busier resource economy, but that's kind of what I'm aiming for.

Could be fun. Just be careful. When going from fixed-pool resources (luck tokens) to variable-pool resources (luck usage die), you're going to most likely end up with far more uses of luck in the game. Like going from spell slots to roll-to-cast, only more so.

With roll-to-cast you might not get to use a spell at all. Imagine how many more casts you'd get with a usage-die spell system instead. Now apply that to luck.

With usage-die luck, you're guaranteed X number of uses but you'll almost certainly get a lot more unless you're incredibly unlucky.

The version I've seen most often is the die steps down on a 1. So 1d8, on a 1 it steps down to a 1d6. So you're talking 7-in-8 chance of not stepping down the die. In theory, you could use that every round all night long and not roll a 1. It's not likely, but it's possible so worth considering.

As an experiment I just threw a d8 until I got a 1. Took me 5 rolls. Step down to d6... first roll got a 1. Step down. Second roll on the d4 was a 1.

So that's 8 luck spends before the 1d8 usage die ran out.

 

[Scribe]

Could be fun. Just be careful. When going from fixed-pool resources (luck tokens) to variable-pool resources (luck usage die), you're going to most likely end up with far more uses of luck in the game. Like going from spell slots to roll-to-cast, only more so.

With roll-to-cast you might not get to use a spell at all. Imagine how many more casts you'd get with a usage-die spell system instead. Now apply that to luck.

With usage-die luck, you're guaranteed X number of uses but you'll almost certainly get a lot more unless you're incredibly unlucky.

The version I've seen most often is the die steps down on a 1. So 1d8, on a 1 it steps down to a 1d6. So you're talking 7-in-8 chance of not stepping down the die. In theory, you could use that every round all night long and not roll a 1. It's not likely, but it's possible so worth considering.

As an experiment I just threw a d8 until I got a 1. Took me 5 rolls. Step down to d6... first roll got a 1. Step down. Second roll on the d4 was a 1.

So that's 8 luck spends before the 1d8 usage die ran out.

Yeah, the numbers are improved at a higher threshold for stepdown like in Macchiato Monsters.

 

[Theory of Games]

Does Shadowdark have official or community-created rules for high level play?

 

[Scribe]

Does Shadowdark have official or community-created rules for high level play?

What is 'high level' by your definition?

 

[The Firebird]

I'm toying with some alternate luck rules for SD, based on the Willpower mechanic from Fleaux!, which is essentially a usage die that does more or less the same thing, but there are penalties if the die runs out. Does stepping that die up sound about as cool as getting a luck token? Obvious UD indexes a busier resource economy, but that's kind of what I'm aiming for.

I don't think I follow (unfamiliar with the Fleaux system). Is the idea that I have a d6 that I can roll and add to my d20 at any time, at the cost of reducing that d6 to a d4 (for future usage)? And then, if I "earn a luck", I can increase it to a d8?

I quite like that idea, it's a slick mechanic.

 

[Fenris-77]

I don't think I follow (unfamiliar with the Fleaux system). Is the idea that I have a d6 that I can roll and add to my d20 at any time, at the cost of reducing that d6 to a d4 (for future usage)? And then, if I "earn a luck", I can increase it to a d8?

I quite like that idea, it's a slick mechanic.

Well, sort of. With a usage die it only steps down if you roll a 1 or 2, so d6 down to D4, and step up does mean up to the next die, although there is usually a cap involved and a penalty if the d4 rolls a 1-2 and your luck runs out.

 

[The Firebird]

Well, sort of. With a usage die it only steps down if you roll a 1 or 2, so d6 down to D4, and step up does mean up to the next die, although there is usually a cap involved and a penalty if the d4 rolls a 1-2 and your luck runs out.

Ah, I see. At a glance I wonder if it is too forgiving, allowing a lot of bonuses to rolls...the loss of a die on only 1-2 doesn't seem too punishing, so you can just do it whenever you are close to a target DC. It seems it may substantially increase character power.

Here is my quick analysis...more to investigate. I'm curious how it plays at the table too. But, this is assuming you 1) know the target DC; 2) use your usage die when it has a 50% of turning a failure into a success; 3) consider both d8/d6 usage dies and downgrading on 1-2 vs every use. The y-axis gives the number of failures you convert to a success. (I also am not considering the penalty for luck running out).

With those limitations, even the d6, downgrade every use case is about 3x as strong as a luck token. If you only downgrade on 1-2, it gets even more mileage; about 3x as strong as a luck token after 10 checks, and with a long tail if you get lucky on your usage die rolls.

So I bet it will play like pulp mode, except you need to give out usage die increases sparingly, while in pulp you'd give a lot of luck tokens.

 

[Fenris-77]

I wasn't planning to let people roll the d6 when they already know the d20 result. So you need to roll the two dice together. The design bit is that I can tie a few more mechanical bits to the system precisely because of the increased economy.

 

[The Firebird]

I wasn't planning to let people roll the d6 when they already know the d20 result. So you need to roll the two dice together. The design bit is that I can tie a few more mechanical bits to the system precisely because of the increased economy.

Got it. Well, I'm not sure I can offer much feedback without knowing more about the system, but I hope it works out! It sounds interesting.

 

[overgeeked]

Well, sort of. With a usage die it only steps down if you roll a 1 or 2, so d6 down to D4, and step up does mean up to the next die, although there is usually a cap involved and a penalty if the d4 rolls a 1-2 and your luck runs out.

I wasn't planning to let people roll the d6 when they already know the d20 result. So you need to roll the two dice together. The design bit is that I can tie a few more mechanical bits to the system precisely because of the increased economy.

I just repeated the experiment. Starting with 1d8 it took 11 rolls to get a 1-2. Two more with 1d6. Two more with 1d4.

It kinda looks similar to DCC RPG's Deed Die. You could also hang other elements on the luck die roll.