Sorcerers

[Merlion]

I have some questions and thoughts about sorcerer variations
What does everyone think of Monte Cook's variant sorcerer from the Book of Eldritch Might 2? I'm rather fond of it myself I think it evens them out and brings them more toward the original concept for the class.
Also in the last campaign I was in, we ignored the "spontaneous casters must spend a full round action to use metamagic feats" rule since it makes Quicken useless for sorcerers and the other feats much less helpful, and I think adds more of an additional cost than needed considering your already using up a higher level slot to use a metamagic feat which both depletes resources and essentialy imposes level caps on the feats as it is.
In the next campaign I am hopefuly joining I am planning on playing a Monte Cook style sorcerer, and I believe this DM is also going to ignore the casting time rule. I'd just like to hear peoples thoughts on thease three things


Merly

 

[Petrosian]

The monte cook sor was iirc overpowered when i looked at it a while back. I do not own the book, so i cannot say much more on it since i do not have it on loan anymore.

Sorcerer's and metamagic is part of the 500 lb gorilla that is spontaneous casting. If you remove the extra time you will, IMO, seriously overpower the class. You should not wish to see a sorcerer hasted throwing two empowered fireballs a round.

the class as it stands in the PHB is not weak or in need of powering up.

If you want to remove the FRA for spontantous metamagic, consider something i suggested as a 3.5e thing... use metamagic feats but at a cost if 1 extra level. So a sorcerer/bard using an empowered fireball uses a sixth level slot.

 

[Erebus]

I like Petrosian's idea regarding the +1 spell slot for metamagic feats.

The best idea from Monte's variant, IMO, is the sorcerer's ability to avoid material components all together. Besides that (and Petrosian's idea) I think the PHB sorcerer is okay, although I have never actually seen Monte's variant in play.

-E

 

[Merlion]

Well, I think, and have met/heard from many others that the PHB sorcerer didnt live up to the expecations we all had when 3e was first coming out. Speciaficaly for me, I remember something in one of the bits we got before 3e came out that described sorcerers as "militant spellcasters". and then we find the only thing they got in that area was full simple weapon profciency. I think increasing the sorcerers hit die type is in line with this, and also makes sense on the level of since they dont have to spend huge amounts of time studying, there physical abilities are slightly improved.
As far as spellcasting the variant basicaly has one more spell at each spell level after first than the PHB version. Not really a drastic change...just enough to give you a little more choice at lower levels especialy.
And he gave them more skill skill points, and 2 more class skills. the more class skills especialy make sense since sorcerers tend to have high Cha and are described as generaly being compelling people with a gift for dealing with others...and yet in the PHB they get no Cha based or people skills of any kind as class skills.
I agree with Erebus that the XP instead of materials cost is a particularly great idea on all levels. It doesnt add power to the class...only convience. In fact given the repetitive nature of sorcerer spellcasting, paying XP is probably actualy a steeper cost in the long run, slightly, but its far more convient. And on a story level since sorcerer's magic comes from within, it seems much more apropriate that they would use there own personal power to fuel certain spells.
The +1 level for MM feats isnt a bad idea but I personaly believe that a sorcerers spontaneous casting is largely payed for by his extremely limited spell selection, even with the variant. And I think metamagic feats are balanced for all classes as they are since as I said having to use higher level slots both uses up resources and imposes effective level limits on the feats...especialy for sorcerers who gain new spell levels more slowly. At the very least something should be done to allow Quicken to be used properly by sorcerers...especialy seeing as how its so in line with general sorcerer style anyway
And as for Haste...well there changing that and I'm all for it. Haste as in the PHB, as a 3rd level spell, was far to poweful..and out of line with previous versions of the spell. Having 9th and 10th level spellcasters able to cast 3 spells a round is just a bit much to me.
And, thank you for your input

 

[RigaMortus]

We've house ruled (before the BoEM came out mind you) that Sorcerer's don't use spell components (unless they are expensive ones, like for Identify and such). We view them a lot like mutants from X-Men.

 

[DerianCypher]

Personally, I like Monte's Sorcerer

I don't know if it is a perfect solution but it is one. The PHB sorcerer is in need of rebalancing due to the fact that they get screwed on skills, spells and feats.

I underatand that sponataneous casting is huge so that is the reason for the penalty to spells (later and fewer).

The thing is that sorcerers get fewer skills than the avg. wizard which really hurts if your going epic and wizards also get 5 bonus feats that sorcerers don't get.

Overall, I think that the wizard is the bigger brother of the sorcerer and a bit of balancing needs to be done.

 

[Darklone]

The PHB sorcerer is screwed? Well. It lacks style, not power. Montes sorcerer is too good... casting like hell, skills and hitpoints...

 

[Merlion]

And with the wizard your still casting like heck, you've got way more item creation and metamagic feats than any other spellcaster, your able to use your metamagic feats as written(unlike the sorcerer), always know considerably more spells, and can easily get to know just about any spell you'd be likely to actualy use.
The skill points and hit points, and especialy the new classes skills and no material components is A) realistic(they have more time for other things) and B) brings them more into line with what there claimed to be.

 

[Benben]

I've found Monte's sorcerer to be a solid class.

The skill selection helps a lot in differentiating the sorcerer from the wizard.

In my campaign the sorcerer ends up spending a lot of XP on casting spells with expensive components, which nice way of showing where the power for her spells is coming from.

 

[CmdrSam]

Out of curiousity -- what's the ratio between cost of material component and XP the sorceror has to spend? I'm planning on implementing something like this in my campaign and wondered what the proper "exchange rate" is; something like 1 XP for every 5 gold cost?

--Sam L-L