Spell Turning vs Dispel Magic (targeted)

[Beretta]

Hi all,

Apologies if this question has been asked before.

This came up in the game, where the PCs opponent had cast "Spell Turning" upon herself.

The PC mage wanted to Dispel that effect with Greater Dispelling, to remove that spell and other wards she had active. Since he was using a targeted Dispel I said that the Greater Dispelling was reflected back on to him.

Obviously he was none-too-pleased with this interpretation, but to his credit went with it until the end of the session. I could see no reason that it would not be turned (as it was a targeted Dispel, not an area Dispel. If he had used an area Dispel then it would not have been turned, but would have only dispelled one ward).

Am I in error here? I may have missed something and was hoping that someone could clarify this situation for when it comes up in future game sessions (as I'm sure it will).

Thanks in advance!

 

[sithramir]

I don't see why it wouldn't reflect back at them. Thats the power of spell turning. Most spells that protect verse spells (GLobe and minor globes of invulnerability) actually address what happens if a dispel magic is used. I don't see why it wouldn't reflect it back. The player could do an area dispel which targets the highest spell first I believe and thus remove it that way. Just won't be able to remove that and all the other spells the guy has.

 

[Pax]

This came up in the game, where the PCs opponent had cast "Spell Turning" upon herself.

The PC mage wanted to Dispel that effect with Greater Dispelling, to remove that spell and other wards she had active. Since he was using a targeted Dispel I said that the Greater Dispelling was reflected back on to him.

It depends on what, EXACTLY, was the target of the Dispel.

If the PC targetted the BBEG with the Dispel, then you are absolutely right -- the Dispel is Turned, before it can affect the BBEG. Spell Turning turns anything (well, spells anyway) that directly target the warded creature, before said spells canhave any effect.

If, otoh, the target was the spell turnign itself, then you were not correct in Turning the dispel. Spell Turning does not protect itself, it protects the person on whom it has been cast. Therefor, targetting the Spell Turning and only the Spell Turning should be comparatively risk-free (though, of course, that Spell Turning is ALL you can dispel with such an attempt).

Based on your comment "[...] and other wards [...]", I have to guess the Wizard targetted the BBEG, right? If so, you were absolutely correct.

In the meantime, I'm sure your player will feel at least slightly mollified if you explain the different effects of targetting the Turning vs the BBEG, though; s/he will know next time to take down the Spell Turning and THEN whack a targetted dispel on the BBEG.

 

[Beretta]

Thanks!

Yes, the wizard targeted the BBEG with a targetted Dispel, and thus it was reflected.

I didn't realise you could actually target a single spell that was in effect on a PC/NPC. Neither of us was aware that this possibility was an option.

In the SRD under Target it says either one spellcaster, creature or object; or 20ft-radius burst.

However, under Targeted Dispel it does indeed say that you can target a spell (although I always interpreted this to mean a spell such as 'Summon Monster' or 'Major Image' or such-like).

Will have to look into this possibility...

Thanks!

 

[sithramir]

That is only an option if you KNOW that spell is up. IE he cast that spell and they made a successful spellcraft check during the fight. If it was an item or he had cast it before they entered battle it would not be an option either way. Unless they used whatever the spell is that can tell you what they got but not many waste a round doing that.

 

[Number47]

Actually, I would rule that targetting the spell on the BBEG is still targeting him. Same as when you target an object that a person holds. It is part of his person, so it is reflected. The only time to use the targeted versus spell is when the spell is separate from the bad guys body, like a summon or a symbol.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The only time to use the targeted versus spell is when the spell is separate from the bad guys body, like a summon or a symbol.

I disagree... if your buddy has a CL17 Energy Immunity (Fire), standing waist-deep in lava, and he's just been hit by a CL15 Hold Person, you want to dispel the Hold Person.

If you use a targetted dispel on him, you might get the Energy Immunity. If you use an area dispel, the high caster level buff will get stripped before the Hold Person.

But since you can target a spell, you can dispel the Hold and leave the EI alone.

Just like Bob-the-Pit-Fiend's sword doesn't benefit from his Regeneration or DR, Fred-the-BBEG's buff spell doesn't benefit from his Spell Turning, if it's targetted directly instead of indirectly via Fred.

-Hyp.