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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 3582533" data-attributes="member: 22882">Chewbacca's "player's" actions in the WotC combat example sound like classic "player isn't paying attention" behavior.Anyway, here's two non-Jedi shown in the movies as steeped in combat feats: Jango Fett and General Grievous.  The latter, at least, is statted up as being the same level as Obi-Wan; both gave him a good fight.  Boba Fett probably qualifies, too, but as noted in the aforementioned combat example, he got screwed by the dice and Han's use of a Destiny Point. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> And their effectiveness in d20 is based on their BAB (shared between heroic and nonheroic characters), their stats (shared between heroic and nonheroic characters; Saga doesn't even suggest a lower point-buy for nonheroics), their hit points and defenses (finally, an edge to the heroes!) and their skills, feats and talents (another edge to the heroes).Unless the PCs are just always much higher level, or are burning Force Points just to survive in every encounter.Yet the skirmishing, especially in A New Hope, results in piles of dead stormtroopers while the heroes get through largely unscathed.  Since there's no mechanic for dumping bucketloads of narrative control onto a noncombat character (like the scaling amounts of Drama Points by "class" in Cinematic Unisystem), their ability to mow down mooks better than other mooks do... probably involves combat feats.  Those don't have to represent special training, they can represent heroic luck or whatever else you like.But the reason Han, Leia and Chewbacca can't touch Darth Vader IS because he's Darth Vader!  That's true both in the film and in the game.  They're well-rounded 10th and 11th level characters against a 19th level combat monster with better stats and an entire army of mooks.  Even if you take away the stormtroopers, Vader should have no serious trouble defeating them.  Do mid-high level D&D PCs with a broad mix of abilities generally stand a chance against a CR 19 dragon when they happen to stumble across its lair?  What about a CR 19 dragon with a nigh-limitless supply of orcs, each with a ring of communication and a composite longbow with +4 arrows?The situations the non-jedi PCs get into in the movies simply can't be solved by combat.  Even three combat-twinked jedi would almost certainly lose that fight.For an example of Jedi getting mooked - look at Palpatine slaughtering the non-Mace Windu Jedi in RotS, and the effects of Order 66 on the non-Yoda, non-Obi-Wan Jedi.  Jedi who aren't extremely high level appear to go down easier than, and to do less damage than, high-level non-Jedi.  Combat prowess has more to do with level (generally a convenient shorthand for narrative significance) than it does with class.True.  A MASTER of blaster-fu would be 20th level, and be a Soldier 7/Gunslinger 10/Bounty Hunter 3 (or some such combat monster build).  He wouldn't have Scoundrel or Noble or Scout levels holding back his BAB (as Han and Leia do), and he wouldn't 'waste' levels on something like Ace Pilot (as Han does).</blockquote>

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