Stat bumps from level increase

FreeTheSlaves

Adventurer
I've been toying with an idea that stat bumps could be the player 'rolling it' instead of a set +1 per X levels to however many stats.

Something along the lines of rolling 4d6dl for a stat and if you beat it, it increases.

Anybody thought of a developed system along these lines?
 

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trancejeremy

Adventurer
The Cavalier, back in UA 1e, had percentiles added on to some of the ability scores. Like say, 15/56. Then every level,you'd roll d100 and add them to the total.

I believe (though not sure) that Hackmaster took this and applied it to all characters and stats.

I think that's an interesting way of doing it, but I'm not convinced stats need to go up. But I'm not opposed, either.
 



Li Shenron

Legend
Something along the lines of rolling 4d6dl for a stat and if you beat it, it increases.

I'd like to try that in some campaign, but then I'm an odd player who welcome randomness in character design (once in a while, not too regularly...).

I agree with the others that stat bumps by level must be eliminated.

It is so easy to just rule them back into the game if you want, but if they are there by default then adventure and monster design is going to assume everybody boost their primary stat to max.
 

Hassassin

First Post
Why? I much prefer if stat bumps are the only way to increase attacks/saves, it makes the game simpler if you attack isn't "str bonus+class bonus+level bonus+feat bonus".

Then you can't become a better swordsman without being able to carry more.

I prefer increases in skill rather than increases in raw ability.
 

delericho

Legend

Fundamentally, ability scores are too important to the game, to the extent that I see a lot of discussions of building characters where the choice of race is determined not by "I want to play a Shardmind", but rather because the player wants to optimise his character by getting that juicy +2 bonus to just the right stat.

Anything that increases stats after character creation actually serves to aggravate the problem - suddenly you have to throw every bonus at that prime requisite just to stay competitive, and a less experienced player (who doesn't know to do this, or who doesn't buy the right items) inevitably falls behind. (Plus, if the game effectively requires you to keep boosting that one stat, then what is the point of having the stats in the first place? It's a 'choice'... but it's a choice to suck or not to suck.)

And, of course, in 3e it was much worse than in 4e - because stats were foundational to everything else, any change to the stat meant a cascade of changes to lots of elements on the character sheet. 4e did well to remove temporary stat mods; 5e should take the next step and get rid of the permanent ones, too.

So, I'm very much of the opinion that stat modifiers in general should be lower, and pretty much everything that changes a character's stats should likewise be eliminated. (With a probable exception for the most powerful magics - the equivalent of the old unlimited wish.)

All IMO, of course.

I much prefer if stat bumps are the only way to increase attacks/saves,

That's an interesting approach, and would certainly be workable. It would be a pretty major change, though.

Besides, I still think I prefer the model where your stats represent your innate potential, while your levels/feats/skills represent the training you have received. Under which model, when Bruce Wayne trains to become Batman, he doesn't increase his stats - he gains lots of levels and skills that allow him to maximise his innate potential.
 

Fundamentally, ability scores are too important to the game, to the extent that I see a lot of discussions of building characters where the choice of race is determined not by "I want to play a Shardmind", but rather because the player wants to optimise his character by getting that juicy +2 bonus to just the right stat.

Anything that increases stats after character creation actually serves to aggravate the problem - suddenly you have to throw every bonus at that prime requisite just to stay competitive, and a less experienced player (who doesn't know to do this, or who doesn't buy the right items) inevitably falls behind. (Plus, if the game effectively requires you to keep boosting that one stat, then what is the point of having the stats in the first place? It's a 'choice'... but it's a choice to suck or not to suck.)

And, of course, in 3e it was much worse than in 4e - because stats were foundational to everything else, any change to the stat meant a cascade of changes to lots of elements on the character sheet. 4e did well to remove temporary stat mods; 5e should take the next step and get rid of the permanent ones, too.

So, I'm very much of the opinion that stat modifiers in general should be lower, and pretty much everything that changes a character's stats should likewise be eliminated. (With a probable exception for the most powerful magics - the equivalent of the old unlimited wish.)

All IMO, of course.

I think that the problem here is that a certain ability is too important, if there is a real a choice between more offence (STR) or defence (dex) it works.

If d&d should be a more skill based game it should have a better skill system, it shouldn't be diference between stealth and fighting skills...
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Fundamentally, ability scores are too important to the game, to the extent that I see a lot of discussions of building characters where the choice of race is determined not by "I want to play a Shardmind", but rather because the player wants to optimise his character by getting that juicy +2 bonus to just the right stat.

Anything that increases stats after character creation actually serves to aggravate the problem - suddenly you have to throw every bonus at that prime requisite just to stay competitive, and a less experienced player (who doesn't know to do this, or who doesn't buy the right items) inevitably falls behind. (Plus, if the game effectively requires you to keep boosting that one stat, then what is the point of having the stats in the first place? It's a 'choice'... but it's a choice to suck or not to suck.)

And, of course, in 3e it was much worse than in 4e - because stats were foundational to everything else, any change to the stat meant a cascade of changes to lots of elements on the character sheet. 4e did well to remove temporary stat mods; 5e should take the next step and get rid of the permanent ones, too.

So, I'm very much of the opinion that stat modifiers in general should be lower, and pretty much everything that changes a character's stats should likewise be eliminated. (With a probable exception for the most powerful magics - the equivalent of the old unlimited wish.)

All IMO, of course.



That's an interesting approach, and would certainly be workable. It would be a pretty major change, though.

Besides, I still think I prefer the model where your stats represent your innate potential, while your levels/feats/skills represent the training you have received. Under which model, when Bruce Wayne trains to become Batman, he doesn't increase his stats - he gains lots of levels and skills that allow him to maximise his innate potential.


My concern is how big the bonuses are. It the highest bonus you can get to attack is +3 at level 10, a +4 from 18 would be stressed over the +2 from 14. But if it is +15 (10 from levels, 2 from weap. focus, +2 from proficiency, +1 from level) then the 18 will not be as needed as much.

Not that I want high bonuses. But piddy +2 bonuses emphasizes max stats.
 

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