D&D 5E (2014) Tabaxi Feline Agility Question- How Would You Rule

[Coroc]

Since I am the DM my ruling stands.
When you DM your ruling stands.
Welcome to D&D and Adventure League. There will be table variations.

Well i never disputed this, i think this thread is about the correct application of a rule in a special case.

If i was playing at your table and you would tell me that a distance is a speed and vice versa though, i would question your ruling and suggest one that meets logic and physics a bit better.

 

[Coroc]

I also dont see what the problem should be with having speed be the limit and movement being something which is spent. It makes sense, the only "problem" is the strange thing about "costing half speed" for standing up.

See that is a reasonable argument. If you use adding and substracting speed and movement as if it were two physical parameters with the same unit, then it would be very reasonable to make the rule something like standing up costs you 10 of your movement but the problem here is, what do you do if your movement is less than 10, So why not simply "it takes a round to stand up".

 

[Coroc]

If you move 20 and get hasted so your speed is now 60, how far you moved and how far you could have moved before your speed changeddoes not matter. That's the point.



No. Standing from prone takes 1/2 your speed in movement. If your speed is 30 when you stand you spend 15 movement. If your speed changes to 60 - whether because a wizard casts haste on you after you stand or because you use feline agility - how far you moved and how far you could have moved before your speed changed does not matter.



If you change your speed during your turn, it does not matter if you could not have moved further under your previous speed.

Under Special Speeds it's clearly spelled out:

" If you have more than one speed, choose which one to use when you move; you can switch between the speeds during your move. Whenever you switch, subtract the distance already moved from the new speed. The result determines how much farther you can move. If the result is 0 or less, you can’t use the new speed during the current move."​

There's no difference between being hasted on your turn after you stand or using feline agility after you stand.

and also @AlViking and @Tigris and @Remathilis and @jasper

I am now on the side that are of the opinion that Tabaxi should be able to do 45' after a standup from prone or even 60', if it has got its FA available.

But maybe for totally different reasons than you all.

See, the whole movement D&D system is heavily simplified, it ignores acceleratio nand decceleration and small variations in speed that all occur IRL. It also is a simpifcation at the end of a round, e.g. in a situation when a player declares "my character runs like hell and he does not stop until he reaches the fortress" it ignores pretty much that this is an ongoing running movement for the purpose of e.g. any Spells or ranged attacks or whatever trying to hit said PC at exactly this point. And if they hit they all impact on him at this exact moment in time: at the end of his round (in a normal combat scenario). Because you got turn based combat.

When reviewing the cat vids, i said to myself, One moment, being prone eventually in an uncommode postion, as a human you would need some time to gather your belongings. A cat? Never.

It came to me that jumping up from prone is THE archetype application for Feline Agility!
It is in a way superb roleplay, matching the expectations.
And maybe some of you guys figuered it the same in their minds.
So thats why i am totally fine with it getting a boon in that situation.

 

[rmcoen]

Wow, 24 pages arguing (debating?) about this question!

My answer comes in two flavors, which only exacerbates the OP's situation.
1) It is way cooler for the Tabaxi player to have 45' movement left, instead of 30'. Let the player be cool.

2) Somewhere in the 5e ruleset I read something about "different movement speeds apply to each other". I.e. if you have a move speed of 30', and a fly speed of 60', but you need to run 10' out of the tunnel before you can fly... you only have 40' of fly speed left.

#1 is simple, easy, cool, and matches what the Rogue can do with Cunning Action. Therefore, if pushed, I will decide #1.

#2 is math-ier, and more consistent... the Tabaxi is increasing its base speed, yada yada, 24 pages of this math = 30' remaining.

As the DM, #1.

Now, something I've learned in 35 years of making "clear and obvious decisions"... check with your players! Not "do you want your character's cool ability to work like this?"... of course they do! Instead, the question is "Is this the way this and similar abilities should work... for you... and all your opponents?" Not surprisingly, there are no peasant railguns in my campaign, or coffeelocks, or or or. Even "crunchier crits" (max + roll) was approved by a narrow margin.

[P.S. I asked my table. The tabaxi gets 45', because the rogue players didn't want to see curtailment of their speed, and they weren't worried about the rare speedster opponent.]


Tangentially, I arbitrarily ruled that combat-based speed bonuses do NOT translate to "normal" movement. Rogue PCs do not naturally move 50% faster than all other classes. To (mis)quote a certain movie dwarf: "We [rogues] are natural sprinters! Very dangerous over short distances... we're wasted on long-distance." If your Base Speed is changed, it changes your long-distance speed; if you have an ability that grants extra movement (Tabaxi Feline Agility applies here too)... that doesn't change your base speed, and does not apply.

 

[Gorck]

My answer to this is 45’ remaining. Why? Because a creature spends half its movement to stand up from prone. Just because that creature also has to ability to sprint fast for a short time doesn’t mean it suddenly becomes more strenuous for them to stand up from prone.

But then, what about Wood Elves, or Barbarians, or Monks? Well, I’m thinking about creating a new rule at my table that standing up from prone should cost a set amount of movement regardless of base speed - 15’ sounds good.

 

[VashVet]

My answer is 30 feet. The ability says “When you move on your turn in combat, you can double your speed until the end of the turn.”

Standing up is movement. By saying you’re using the feline agility, it encompasses all movement during that turn, not just from the point you said it.

Also being able to still move 30 feet after standing up from prone is still pretty effing cool.

 

[Scott Christian]

My answer is 30 feet. The ability says “When you move on your turn in combat, you can double your speed until the end of the turn.”

Standing up is movement. By saying you’re using the feline agility, it encompasses all movement during that turn, not just from the point you said it.

Also being able to still move 30 feet after standing up from prone is still pretty effing cool.

I would go with this because we want to keep the rules simple. Our table doesn't want to try and break down turns and make combat even longer. Combat is long enough.
If the player insisted 45'. Sure. Go ahead. But afterwards, we would talk about and explain why simplicity is more apt for our table.

 

[VashVet]

I would go with this because we want to keep the rules simple. Our table doesn't want to try and break down turns and make combat even longer. Combat is long enough.
If the player insisted 45'. Sure. Go ahead. But afterwards, we would talk about and explain why simplicity is more apt for our table.

That’s my thinking as well. I look at the 45’ explanation and think “How easily and consistently is this going to be applied by both myself and the players?” My feeling is that it’s very likely to be selectively forgotten. The 30’ answer is just cleaner overall.

 

[AlViking]

I can see a DM ruling that "when you move" it includes all movement during the turn. I tend to rule in favor of the player in cases like this - it's really not going to make that much of a difference often enough to matter.

 

[Coroc]

Wow, 24 pages arguing (debating?) about this question!

My answer comes in two flavors, which only exacerbates the OP's situation.
1) It is way cooler for the Tabaxi player to have 45' movement left, instead of 30'. Let the player be cool.

2) Somewhere in the 5e ruleset I read something about "different movement speeds apply to each other". I.e. if you have a move speed of 30', and a fly speed of 60', but you need to run 10' out of the tunnel before you can fly... you only have 40' of fly speed left.

#1 is simple, easy, cool, and matches what the Rogue can do with Cunning Action. Therefore, if pushed, I will decide #1.

#2 is math-ier, and more consistent... the Tabaxi is increasing its base speed, yada yada, 24 pages of this math = 30' remaining.

As the DM, #1.

Now, something I've learned in 35 years of making "clear and obvious decisions"... check with your players! Not "do you want your character's cool ability to work like this?"... of course they do! Instead, the question is "Is this the way this and similar abilities should work... for you... and all your opponents?" Not surprisingly, there are no peasant railguns in my campaign, or coffeelocks, or or or. Even "crunchier crits" (max + roll) was approved by a narrow margin.

[P.S. I asked my table. The tabaxi gets 45', because the rogue players didn't want to see curtailment of their speed, and they weren't worried about the rare speedster opponent.]


Tangentially, I arbitrarily ruled that combat-based speed bonuses do NOT translate to "normal" movement. Rogue PCs do not naturally move 50% faster than all other classes. To (mis)quote a certain movie dwarf: "We [rogues] are natural sprinters! Very dangerous over short distances... we're wasted on long-distance." If your Base Speed is changed, it changes your long-distance speed; if you have an ability that grants extra movement (Tabaxi Feline Agility applies here too)... that doesn't change your base speed, and does not apply.

Well at least one, who thouroughly understood my logical analysis. If there has to be a RAW clarification, then imho Tabaxi should be able to use their FA for standing up from prone with some kind of movement boon compared to chars without FA (if they got it available, that is). But also Tabaxi should have to declare FA at the beginning of a round no matter what. And thats my final post in this thread.