Take 20 on Aid Another?

[airwalkrr]

Do you allow a character to take 20 on an aid another check? If you do, it often means no roll is necessary unless the character making the aid another check has a massive penalty to the roll. The rules don't mention it, although they do prohibit you from taking 10. I allow it whenever a player wants to as long as the normal conditions for taking 20 allow it. Of course, I often place practical limits on how many players can aid. For instance if the player characters are trying to break down a small door, I'd probably rule that only one character can aid the primary character. Of course taking 20 to break down a door is likely to cause a lot of noise.

 

[Greenfield]

Absolutely not.

The Take 20 option presumes that you take the time to try the task over and over until you get it right.

Since you're coordinating with someone else you're trying to Aid, they'd have to be trying over and over as well, hoping that your successful Aid Another came on the same attempt they rolled well on.

 

[Jimlock]

I allow it whenever a player wants to as long as the normal conditions for taking 20 allow it.

I can find logic into this...

Two people cooperating to do something together, even if they attempt over and over again until they get it right, should get a bonus from one another...

 

[Greenfield]

Two people, working together, each doing a "Take 20", is pretty much "Take 400", in terms of time and attempts required.

And yeah, technically you can do it, presuming retries are allowed on the base task, but it's so insanely time consuming that I'd never class it as "Take 20".

If you need two Take 20s, together, you're attempting the wrong task.

 

[Jimlock]

Two people, working together, each doing a "Take 20", is pretty much "Take 400", in terms of time and attempts required.

And yeah, technically you can do it, presuming retries are allowed on the base task, but it's so insanely time consuming that I'd never class it as "Take 20".

If you need two Take 20s, together, you're attempting the wrong task.

Aren't you getting a bit too "mathematical" on this?

If you don't want to call it "take 20", then don't, but someone being helped in a repeated task without risk of failure should definitely get a +2... to say the least.

 

[Arrowhawk]

Aren't you getting a bit too "mathematical" on this?

If you don't want to call it "take 20", then don't, but someone being helped in a repeated task without risk of failure should definitely get a +2... to say the least.

Got to go with Greenfield on this one. The take 20 convention is permissible specifically because of the math. So live by the sword, die by the sword. If both characters need a 20, then you have to take the requisite time to assume that at some point, both players simultaneously did the best they could ever do at the same task at the same time. That would be Take 400.

 

[Jimlock]

Got to go with Greenfield on this one. The take 20 convention is permissible specifically because of the math. So live by the sword, die by the sword. If both characters need a 20, then you have to take the requisite time to assume that at some point, both players simultaneously did the best they could ever do at the same task at the same time. That would be Take 400.

So what you are saying is that you won't give a +2 bonus to a guy being helped by another to complete a task with repeated attempts and without risk of failure?

So one guy can take 20? and other has to roll?

Does not make any sense to me...

 

[Arrowhawk]

So what you are saying is that you won't give a +2 bonus to a guy being helped by another to complete a task with repeated attempts and without risk of failure?

So one guy can take 20? and other has to roll?

Does not make any sense to me...

Are we talking about the same thing? Don't make me force you to do a Take 20 with three people involved!!!

Either they both roll...or they both Take 400. I think it is a separate question on whether you can Aid Another with a +2 bonus. That doesn't require a Take 20 on anyone's part, does it?


So the original questions is:

Do you allow a character to take 20 on an aid another check?

My understanding of take 20 is that the nature of the task allows you to keep trying and at one point you're going to do the best you can. That process requires twenty tries (yes, it's an abstraction). The problem with this is that you don't know when in that 20 tries, you are going to get the best roll you can get. It might happen on the first try, it might happen on the 20th try.

But if I am helping someone do a task, how do I assure that I get the "20" at exactly the same time when they are rolling?

 

[Jimlock]

Either they both roll...or they both Take 400.

Sorry... but that sounds absurd.

So you can take 20 to do something...alone.... but when someone helps you... you can't?

 

[Arrowhawk]

Sorry... but that sounds absurd.

So you can take 20 to do something...alone.... but when someone helps you... you can't?

If A is rolling, how do you know that A's roll occurs when B got a 20 by virtue of the Take 20 convention?

In essence you're arguing that B rolls a 20 every roll.

Again, using Take 20 and Aid Another to guarantee that B is aiding with a 20 is to abuse the Take 20 rule...like a red headed step child.