Tear apart this magic system please (Long)

Magic
These changes supersede the rules in the PHB regarding the use and practice of magic. They are very different. Magic is made more flexible for the practitioner but also more problematic as a skill roll is now required to cast spells.

Basic Premises:
* Magic is now mana driven rather than the ¡¥Vancian¡¦ fire and forget method presented in the PHB
* Casting a Spell required both the expenditure of Mana points as well as a skill roll based on the difficulty of the spell to cast.
* A spell book must still be kept, and an arcane spell caster must still spend time studying but not the 8 hours of rest. Mana is regained over time based on the character¡¦s activity level.
* The Maximum Spell Level restrictions have been lifted, so long as you have the mana, and make the skill check, and know the spell you can cast it. Meaning, if my 1st level wizard has a 2nd level spell in his book, he can cast it.

Mana Progression:
A beginning character a number of mana points equal to his spellcasting statistic modifier plus his constitution modifier. So:
Mage: 2(Int) + 2d4 = Mana
Cleric: 2(Wis) + 2d4 = Mana
Bard: 2(Cha) + 2d4 = Mana
Ranger: 2(Wis) + 1d4 = Mana (from the point at which spells are cast)
Paladin: 2(Wis) + 1d4 = Mana (from the point at which spells are cast)
Druid: 2(Wis) + 2d4 = Mana

In addition each full spellcasting character receives 2d4 mana points per level, while paladins and rangers receive 1d4 mana points per level.

Regaining Mana:
Mana will be regained at the following rates based on activity level, the character¡¦s constitution, and spellcasting level.

Sleep: 10 per hour
Light Activity: 5 per hour
Heavy Activity: 2 per hour
Sleep: Its obvious your asleep
Light Activity: Meditating, reading, light physical activity such as walking
Heavy Activity: Riding a horse, fighting, spellcasting, research, etc.

Spell Casting Check
A spell-casting check is made every time a spell is cast. This represents the wielders ability to control the magic. A spell-casting check is the same as any skill roll, it consists of:
Stat Bonus + Skill Bonus + Other Bonuses + D20 VS. DC
The appropriate skills are based on the class of the spell caster and are listed below:
Mages „³ Spellcraft
Clerics „³ Knowledge: Religion
Druids „³ Wilderness Lore
Rangers „³ Wilderness Lore
Paladins „³ Knowledge: Religion
Bards „³ Perform

These skills are used whenever a spell is cast. The base difficulty check value is based on the level of the spell, as modified by any meta-magic feats. These are listed below:
Spell Level DC
0 8
1 10
2 13
3 16
4 19
5 22
6 25
7 28
8 31
9 34
Note that higher than ninth level spells are possible but are currently unknown, and it is possible to meta-magic a ninth level spell, just add +3 to the DC for each spell level of increase the feat requires.
If a spell-casting check is failed, then a Channeling Check is made. This consists of a Fortitude save vs. a DC of 10 + mana used. Failing a Channeling Check, the spell-caster takes ability damage equal to the level of the spell (the effective level for meta-magiced spells). This damage is dealt to the characters Constitution. Lesser Restoration will not heal this ability damage, though normal time, Restoration, Limited Wish, and Wish will. The damaged is caused by the spells energy being internalized.

Mana to Cast Spells:
Each spell requires an amount of mana to cast based upon its effective spell level. Effective spell level is equal to the level of the spell plus any modifiers from meta-magic feats.

Spell Level Mana
0 2
1 4
2 7
3 11
4 16
5 22
6 29
7 37
8 45
9 54
Note that higher than ninth level spells are possible but are currently unknown, and it is possible to meta-magic a ninth level spell, just add the new level to the previous levels totals, for instance a tenth level spell would cost 64 spell points, an 11th level spell would cost 75.
Ultimately this spell progression limits spellcasters at the higher end while making them more versatile at the lower end. This progression is also subject to change should play-testing reveal it to be to limiting.

Meta-Magic Feats:
Apply spell level penalties as described in the feat description and figure DC and Mana requirements as normal.

Overcasting:
Any spell-caster can cast any spell he or she knows, regardless of level, so long as she has the mana points to power it, makes the spell-casting check, and has the spell in his or her spellbook. Divine casters may attempt to cast any spell on their spell lists, so long as the have the mana points to power it and make the spell-casting check.

Learning Spells:
At first level Mages have a number of spells already inscribed into their spellbooks. These include all 0 level spells, as well as Identify and 4 spells of their choice taken from the 1st level spell lists. Every additional level thereafter a character receives 2 more spells of their choice, none of which can be more than 1 level higher than any spell currently in their spellbook. These spells represent a mages natural research and learning. More spells can be added to a mages spellbook by finding them in other mage¡¦s books, on scrolls, or being taught them by another mage. The procedures for doing this are laid out in the PHB page 155. Once learned a new spell may be placed into the mage¡¦s personal spellbook and cast as normal.

Storing Mana:
Gems may be used to store mana points. In order to do so a proper receptacle must be prepared, this is treated as creating a magic item and requires the Store Mana feat. The amount of mana which can be stored in any given gem is based on the quality of the gem as represented by its value. For every 10gp in value the gem may be used to store 1 mana point. So a 100gp gem could store 10 mana points.

Store Mana [Meta-Magic]
You may use gems to store mana points.
Prerequisites: Ability to cast arcane spells, any other meta-magic feat
Benefit: You may use gems to store mana, as described in the Storing Mana section of this document. Once mana is stored in a gem it may be retrieved at will by any arcane caster. Once a gem has been used to store mana it becomes worthless. The process takes 2 hours per point stored, if the process is not completed in one sitting a successful Concentration check must be made (DC 25), to restart the process.

Spell Adders:
Spell Adders are magic items which allow a spellcaster to cast a spell of any level without expending any mana. The spell cast must be known to the caster and the spellcasting check must still be made. A spell adder is rated in +¡¦s. A +1 spell adder allows for one spell in a 24 hour period to be cast without the use of mana. The spell may be of any level. A +2 spell adder allows 2 spells to be cast in a 24 hour period without using mana. The most powerful spell adders are rated as +5.

Clerics and Domain Spells:
Clerics will receive an additional number of mana points based on their domain spells. The number of mana points received is equivalent to number of points required to cast the Domain spell. The number of bonus points, and when they are attained is listed below.
Level Mana
1 4
3 7
5 11
7 16
9 22
11 29
13 37
15 45
17 54
 

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Ok. some comments:

1) The idea of the channelling check is good, but it means that failing the casting of a 9th level spell is DEATH: Fort save DC 64 its insane, expecially for an arcane caster: it would leave him with a Con of 5 (supposing Con 14) and so two failed spells and you're dead.
Maybe use the same DC as the casting check: still high (saves go up half as fast as skills).

2) A wizard can cast all the spells in his spellbook as if it was a sorceror ?

3) Probably divine casters could become a bit more powerful: overcasting is easier for them, as they know all the spells (a real lot) and have more mana

4) Maybe you should make the magic skills cross-class for the paladin and ranger (expecially for the latter): a 20th level ranger will never fail a DC 19 check.

Some suggestions, then:
You can find examples of Mana-based magic systems both in the Dusk setting or in one conversion on Middle Earth d20. (both are free)
Also, the CODA system for the LotR game by Decipher has a nice alternative magic system (with spell failure that results in fatigue, and no spell preparation)
Of course also everything that is psionics can go (you can borrow PP tables & so on), but usually psionics tend to have a much narrower choice of known spells. (this is all on the SRD, even if it's not written that clear)
 

Ok...

1. Can you clarify how you calculate the amount of Mana a character has? You mention something about spellcasting modifier + Constitution modifier, but that's not what your examples look like: 2(Int)+2d4, and so on.

2. Assuming the amount of Mana were 2(Spellcasting Ability)+2(level)d4, a 20th level caster would only have an average of 140-150 Mana points. That only allows him to cast two 9th level spells (or 6 6th level, or 7 5th level) - is that intentional, to balance out spontaneous casting from a potentially unlimited spell list? Not being able to cast a lot of 9th level spells I can understand, but I think the lower-level spell costs are much too high. (I realize that your casters regenerate Mana constantly, but the 2 points/hour rate while adventuring might as well be zero when it comes to casting high-level stuff, and 10 points/hour while sleeping means that they actually get spells back slower than traditional casters).

I think it'd be better to put a limit on spells known (although a bigger one than what sorcerers or psions have), and lower the Mana costs somewhat.

3. As was mentioned already, the penalties for failed casting checks are much too severe - after 3rd level, the Fort save DCs get so high they can pretty much only be made on a natural 20, except by clerics with very high Con. That, and the skill check DCs also seem a bit high - they'd be ok, if failing didn't mean loosing all that Mana (I assume you loose the Mana on a failed check, that's another thing you should clarify) and the massive Con damage.

4. I don't think making the amount of Mana gained at leveling up random is a good idea. It has the potential to create huge differences in power between casters. If you really want a random element, it should be smaller.
 

A Rolemaster fan, huh?

Well, one thing you should do is compare the DCs with expected skill levels. Frex, at 17th level, when you could normally cast a 9th level spell, given max ranks, default array with all bumps in key ability, and a +6 item for key ability, you still have a 30% chance of failing to cast a 9th level spell. Now at first level you still have a 15% of failing to cast a 1st level spell. So you're looking at a 15-30% chance of failing to cast a spell you would normally be able to cast. That's huge, even without the chanelling check. Even a 20th level caster has a 15% chance of failing to cast a 9th level spell.

Also, I'd keep the requirement of key ability of 10 plus n to cast an nth level spell.
 
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Thanks for the feedback, since you all were kind enough to take the time allow me.

gpetruc:
(1) Good point, am changing Channeling Check DC to equal the Spallcasting DC.

(2) Yes, its intentional, since I don't have sorcerers.

(3) You are potentially very correct here. We use a point buy so I am hoping the point buy limits the stats sufficientl that a cleric is either going to be a very good combatant (buying up physical stats) or a very good spellcaster (maxing out wis) or average at both. I have to see how that plays out though. I may have to make some changes here, as to what changes I am not sure. I am thinking of eventually changing the clerical spell lists so that each deity has their own list of spells. That might balance out as the clerics will be able to cast a more limited list of spells albeit more efficiently....more thoughts on this issue would be helpful.

(4) Also not something I considered. Thanks

mmu1
(1) there was a change that made it into the players copy but not mine. Your equation is correct.

(2) Yes it was intentional. I wanted to put a rein on high level spell casters. After having experienced them both as a player and a DM I feel their dominance is inherent in the base system and so wanted to change that somewhat. To balance that out, I made them much more flexible and more useful at lower level.

(3) Am changing the DC of the channeling check but not the penalty. Although I would entertain thoughts of alternate penalties. Originally the penalty was a hit to the casting stat, but that was found to be much worse.

Ichabod
Huge RM fan, if I could convince my group, thats what we would be playing. In fact I am working on changing the D20 skill system to match RM's. Stats yield development points, classes determine skill costs etc. I really hope it translates well, but we'll see. I was looking at a base 10-15% chance to fail a spell that was intentional and so far it has not been to bad. It might be a little high I agree, but I am waiting for some more playtesting before I monkey with the spellcasting DC's again.

Thanks all for the input it has been very helpful. If you have more please feel free.

Thullgrim
 

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