The *automatic* success/failure rule

[Simulacrum]

Core or NOT?
Should it stay? what is the alternative?
Should it be gone to simplyfy the system?

::The +10 -10 variant functions as follows-->
Roll a 1 and it counts as you had thrown a -10.
Roll a 20 and it counts as 30 (+10) ):::

 

[Golandrinel]

I believe that whever the calculated chances and mechanics that anyone should have a chance to succeed or fail at any action (bar a fighter casting a spell with no training etc etc). The -10 rule might not be a big enough penalty to make some characters fail and the +10 might not be enough to make someone succeed.

 

[Simulacrum]

I believe that whever the calculated chances and mechanics that anyone should have a chance to succeed or fail at any action (bar a fighter casting a spell with no training etc etc). The -10 rule might not be a big enough penalty to make some characters fail and the +10 might not be enough to make someone succeed.

what??? even if your character has say +20 on the roll he just made and throws a 1 (-10), that instantly pulls him down to +10.
This will make most things exept the MOST COMMON things go failure. and you have to be at least lvl 17 to get it that high.
(without any mods calculated in, assuming its not always your best stat that is used) Even if you calculate another +10 for misc boni into it you end up with 20 that isnt enough 99% of the time on the level you get there. (between 8 - 14 wild guess)

 

[Simulacrum]

Oh and I forgot to add that the *auto* rule applies to opposed rolls too. like opposed strength checks (against dragons etc) if I'm not mistaken. 2+2=5?

 

[Fenes 2]

I use a mix of house rules. In one campaign we use the -10/+30 for attack rolls, just to avoid that a trained high-level fighter could actually miss a a clumsy untrained commoner 1/20th of the time.
As far as saves and skill checks go, I usually let a natural 1 have more severe effects, but only if the roll failed - it does not count as -10. Auto-succeed on a 20 are not, imho, good things for skill checks, but could be acceptable for saves (Although it is not as if a natural 20 would not succeed anyway in all but the most extreme cases of saves.)

 

[Stalker0]

I agree that everyone should have a chance of failure or success, but often 5% is too high. The variant lowers these percents, and is often more reasonable.

 

[Golandrinel]

Simulacrum - I like to use that sort of logic so that things like "David and Goliath" can happen, or so that Epic Level characters can still muck up when they try something ridiculously easy, like an epic thief trying to climb some stairs but falls down... I'm not very familiar with the mechanics of 3e but would like to put this principal to work in it when I'm comfortably up to speed.

 

[kreynolds]

I'm not very familiar with the mechanics of 3e...

Then you should try it out as is first. Seriously, an epic character simply won't fall down trying to climb a flight of stairs. Even if he rolls a 1 on his skill check, he'll no doubt have so many bonuses that a 1 would even get him up a smooth rock wall. At epic levels, its also recommended that you ditch the auto success/failure for attack rolls bit and go with the 1/-10, 2/+10 rule. The ELH suggests this for the same reasons I put forth about the skills...meaning there is no reason at all why a 40th level fighter would miss an attack against even a standard orc. None. Even on a 1, he should still hit (unless the player just rolls that many 1's).

 

[Datt]

We use the -10/+10 variant for combat, because you just might not be good enough to hit that dragon, and the 1 fails and 20 succeeds for saves. As far as skills go just add your roll to you total skill. If a 20 doesn't succeed then you just can't succeed. A 1st level rouge should not have any chance of opening an amazing lock, DC 40.

 

[IceBear]

I didn't think the ELH advocated 20=30 and 1=-10. I thought it advocated the open rolls where natural 1 = -20, a natural 20 = +20 and then roll again adding the next dice result to the roll (including another natural 1/20).

I like this and plan on using it in my next campaign (currently using 1/20 is auto fail/success, except for skill checks) as I feel that it will still give the chance for someone to hit or miss despite the odds, but be better than the 5% chance there currently is.

IceBear