The Avenger "Trap".

[Herschel]

One thing I've noticed with the Avenger is that the class idea of "Divide and conquer" is a bit of a trap. Sure, if you can mess up an artillery/controller it's pretty handy but when facing a lot of melee thugs it seems to be a bad proposition. In one game, our Avenger goes in to pursuit mode, siphons, then either gets surrounded or taken down solo and is generally first to unconscious and first to out-of-surges. In the game I play an Avenger I've found most often I get better results against said melee thugs if I work beside the Warden and using Leading Strike than trying to get something out of my censure.

Is anyone else finding this also?

 

[mneme]

I think that trying to abuse your censure is a bit of a trap (though it works well enough sometimes -- certainly, for a pursuit it encourages you to chase down artillery and makes it easier to corner them; for Retribution it makes it a bit easier to take the pain of charging past a pile of minions while you chase down your next target) [except for Unity, which except in very strange parties, doesn't get big bumps from Censure and gets regular bumps instead].

But the Avenger is a very tactical class, and you don't want to always be doing the same thing. Sometimes you want to work with the defender (a defender is your bestest friend -- particularly when they can make it easier for you to get your Oath reroll, which is, after all, your real extra damage feature, -not- your censure); sometimes you want to charge out and engage the controller while the party takes apart the front line.

 

[DracoSuave]

If you're finding trouble getting oaths, have less abilities that chase down enemies, and more abilities that draw enemies out.

It don't matter if the enemy can run into friends if you can run up and teleport it back out wherever you wish; I suggest in a donut of melee death myself.

 

[Mengu]

Is anyone else finding this also?

It's a matter of experience. If you've ever seen a low level rogue slink behind the enemy line to flank someone, and promptly get dropped, or if you've seen the barbarian go charging headlong into the enemy only to be making death saves on his next turn, you know what I'm talking about. You just learn not to do this.

When playing a melee striker, you have to be patient. Let the defenders and controllers do their thing first. Then you strike. The fact that you have good initiative doesn't mean you should go diving first. Use that initiative for a ranged attack. When I'm playing my dwarf avenger, my first move in nearly every combat that I happen to get high initiative, is to hit something with Radiant Vengeance, and get some temps. I'm never going in first. That's the defender's job.

With some focus on mobility powers, an Avenger should be able to move around well enough to get oath double rolls on their oath target. For the few Avengers I've seen in action, it is rare that they don't get a double roll.

 

[Aulirophile]

^.

Ideal initiative order is something like controller > defender > leader > strikers.

Lock down enemies, mark enemies, buff strikers, strike. A group where everyone has a casque of tactics and can regularly pull this off will often end encounters in two rounds just from the benefits of coordination.

 

[holywhitetrash]

avengers can have the highest ac of anybody (this might be different with errata)
so my avenger hasn't had to many problems with chasing down his oath

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I haven't had much of an issue with this. The fighter in our party's pretty good about grabbing stuff, and uses his Rings of Personal Gravity like they're going out of style. (He has two.)

Often, in fact, I'll Sequestering Striike my Oathed target off to the side while the remainder of the party cleans house. I've invested rather heavily in AC, and I have a Reflex and Will defense that controllers have to actually roll to hit (as opposed to the usual "Not a 1" that monsters need to hit*), so I'm reasonably survivable until the rest of the party grinds down the opposition.

* - This is a touch hyperbolic, I realize.

Brad

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

My avenger does what the other poster stated, that is, usually, in the first round, I use radiant vengeance to gain some THP, then I survey the situation, and quite often, stand behind a defender, and move in-and-out with overwhelming strike.

But I know what you mean. When I first started playing my avenger, he got beat down. I found that picking the right utility powers helped out a lot, the mobility ones.

 

[Stalker0]

To me Avengers seem tough enough that if they get surrounded for a bit they can handle it, even away from the rest of the party.

 

[TarionzCousin]

When playing a melee striker, you have to be patient. Let the defenders and controllers do their thing first. Then you strike. The fact that you have good initiative doesn't mean you should go diving first. Use that initiative for a ranged attack. When I'm playing my dwarf avenger, my first move in nearly every combat that I happen to get high initiative, is to hit something with Radiant Vengeance, and get some temps. I'm never going in first. That's the defender's job.

^.

Ideal initiative order is something like controller > defender > leader > strikers.

Lock down enemies, mark enemies, buff strikers, strike. A group where everyone has a casque of tactics and can regularly pull this off will often end encounters in two rounds just from the benefits of coordination.

My Avenger is the first character I've ever played where I don't want to have a high initiative. It's much better to wait and see how the battlefield is structured before rushing in and attacking.

In my group, the dwarven fighter is the only other "front line" character, and his initiative sucks. Lucky for me he charges everything willy-nilly without thought to smart tactics or coordinated group attacks.