The D&D economy, how much gold do my players earn?

[SoulsFury]

My players are each 1/3 owners of a very profitable mining operation. As such, they have built a small settlement that is growing fast, thanks to the players dropping tons of gold into the economy for building walls and such.

Does anyone have any formulas they use for taxes, tithes and business profit?

I need to know how much they would earn from the mining operation, how much they get from the taxes their community pays, and in the case of the church, how much the community tithes. Any ideas guys?

 

[shadzar]

You set up the mine, so have to figure out how much profit being made form the mine. If the town is running it, then with expenses and such the players would get to split say 15% of the profit with the rest going to pay for all those things you mention, so 5% of the profit each.

If the players also own the settlement rather than someone else, the the players would need to set the tax amount they collect, otherwise see the above and the players get the 5% each and the taxes paid to the settlement land owners, etc would go into the expenses along with tithes to churches and such to kep them out of the heavy bookkeeping. That is what the hired scribes and scholars are for.

If you and the players want it broken down more precisely, then that can be down by yourself and tham, or I will help if given details on various things.

I know 5% of the mining profits seems a lot, but this is cash profits to the players, not including their free meals and room in board at the inns/taverns of the settlement that will probably not turn away or charge their most honored emploers much. and everything else goes back into the mining process to make more.

So it all depends on what comes out of the mine and how how big and what kind of deposit they found and are mining.

But that is just what I would do, and for adventurers owning their own mine, it can be a big income dump for no more effort, but MANY great plot hooks can come from it while they are travelling. Also their are risks that might reduce those profits making the player's 5% fluctuate.

 

[korjik]

The quick, not particularly useful answer is: As much as you want to give them.

I believe the last time I had this situation I was doing about 5gp per person per year in taxes, and then intermittent payments in mithril, amythest and cash from the mines.

You should at least make it so that the players will see a decent return on the cash they put into the town. That way they will continue to add to it, and not their pool of magic items.

 

[SoulsFury]

The quick, not particularly useful answer is: As much as you want to give them.

I believe the last time I had this situation I was doing about 5gp per person per year in taxes, and then intermittent payments in mithril, amythest and cash from the mines.

You should at least make it so that the players will see a decent return on the cash they put into the town. That way they will continue to add to it, and not their pool of magic items.

What I am hoping to figure out is a simple formula that will reflect just what you are saying.

For instance, Town Population * X gp / # of characters = yearly gross income.

How much would your average person pay in taxes each year?

As for the mining operation, it is fairly successful, but I don't want it to be so successful it flood their coffers with unlimited amount of gold.

They are level 10 at the moment, so maybe 20,000 gp a year profit? The mines are actually a giant meteor, so after X years, it will run dry.

Also, does anyone know what your average innkeeper, blacksmith, or <insert common medieval industry> would make per year? Or even how much it would cost to make a tavern, an inn, a manor house, etc. We have been using the old AD&D Castle Guide for costs of things such as the town wall, which they are just now starting to pay for. The settlement is small, so I have figured a progression on how the town will grow in size from new workers coming to the wealth that is being distributed, but I also want the characters to make money so, like you said, they could reinvest in the town. I want the characters to be a vital addition to the town. As the monetary funders of the wall, they will institute the first taxes, levying them for the protection they are offering. I just want this to be as 'realistic' as possible. Something I can scale as the town grows.

 

[shadzar]

I just want this to be as 'realistic' as possible. Something I can scale as the town grows.

So you and the players have been using the Castle Guide because you DO want to simulate the realities and have the bookkeeping available so you can count up things individually during play or out of play to "run the numbers"?

 

[Scott DeWar]

some of what you ask might be found in the magical midevil european society ...dang it, what is that thing called? any one know?

 

[SoulsFury]

So you and the players have been using the Castle Guide because you DO want to simulate the realities and have the bookkeeping available so you can count up things individually during play or out of play to "run the numbers"?

We have used it to calculate time and cost of the towns walls. To date, that is all we have used it for, and we will continue to use it for prices of buildings detailed in there. However, that book doesn't tell me anything about how much the players should earn off their village. We really want a standardized set of rules, since we alternate who DMs from time to time, though I am the main DM (read 9/10ths of the time). We also make extensive use of the Medieval Demographics site, but again, that doesn't tell me how much a feudal lord would make. I put 'realistic' because there is obviously only so realistic you can make a fantasy game, but I would like to simulate some realism in how much they make.

 

[shadzar]

So just what this village would pay them in taxes? 1st edition DMG has a section on taxes, but it is for taking exces money away form players, maybe not helpful figuring out what the players would take form citizens since it focuses on outsiders coming into a city, i think.

I will have to look in books and elsewhere. Of course elsewhere you might have to convert real worth values to game values based on common things or amounts you feel appropriate.

 

[Dausuul]

I don't know what the profit margin was on medieval mining. Let's say 10%, which is probably way high, but it'll do to start with.

So, take the total number of laborers. Multiply by the yearly wage. 4E, of course, does not deign to consider such mundane matters as the cost of hiring workers, but 3E suggests 1 silver per day for unskilled labor and 3 silver for trained. Assume 250 working days a year (after holidays, regular rest days, et cetera), and say an average 2 silver per worker, you're looking at a cost of 50 gp per worker per year. If we figure that includes upkeep and maintenance, then 50 gp times the number of workers is the operation's annual expenses. Figuring backward, with a 10% profit margin, we get a gross of about 56 gp per worker per year--a profit of 6 gp a head.

 

[SiderisAnon]

I highly recommend for a good gaming economic bit the "A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe Second Edition". I linked the second edition, though I'm still using the first edition myself.

If you want to get heavy into trade, the "A Magical Society: Silk Road" has thing like setting up caravans, price of good at source vs destination, figuring profits, and that type of thing. It's really not necessary unless you like reading such things for ideas or you figure your players will be doing a lot of trade missions. (I have players who are interested in that kind of thing, so this book helps.)

If found all three of the books in this series to be interesting reading and full of good ideas. The economic items, while researched to reflect some ideas about the pseudo-historical time period D&D is set in, are more balanced toward a gaming economic balance. (And when it comes to typical D&D economy, the word "balance" is used loosely.)


Ultimately, I agree with a poster above: Give them as much gold as you'd like to. Even if you use a system like above, you can always adjust profits by throwing in extra costs, extra taxes, or just having some old enemy show up and throw a wrench in the works.

I always let my players get involved in the economy. To me, a base of operations is nothing but a big adventure hook waiting to happen.