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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majere" data-source="post: 1460830" data-attributes="member: 13916">Actually I have seen it stated time and time again by game designers that the CR for dragons are based on the assumption that the party knows ther eis a dragon and that they are PREPARED for the combat. They have had TIME to put up dlay poison on everyone, to cast truesight. Oh and if it is only huge its <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />ed <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />First round the celric readys to cast silence 5' infront of the dragon when the mage casts force cage. The Wizard force cages it (barred version 20*20) with no save and no SR and the cleric then silences the dragon. The next round (or same if you have a 3rd caster) cast dimensional lock on the area. And then the  mage readys disintigrate as a counter to counter a silenced disintigrate on the force cage in the event that the dragon has the silent spell feet. You are now free to sit back and papper the dragon with blow em up and missile fire to your hearts content, you can even summon monsters in witht he dragon to help beat it up. As it happens this is a pretty foolproof tactic for anything less that 20*20 in size. IIRC Dragons are colossal-long and therefore 20-40. Not being colossal can have its drawbackIf you throw this at an unprepared party its going to be a mess... but ten again for an unprepared party its more like CR 21My 2cMajere</blockquote>

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