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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majere" data-source="post: 1467378" data-attributes="member: 13916">What you are assuming here is that it cast shapechange previously.Why ?And none of this is anything a level 7 mage couldnt doAnd he is only CR17Once anyone gets level 9 spells then every combat is a potential TPK.. And Its almost impossible to stop any BBEG teleporting/gateing etc awayEqually as long as the party cleric has astral learnt its merely a matter of making sure he escapes to true ress everyone to then get everyone back.High level D&D is a frankly strange and unwieldy beast. Just because its nasty doesnt realyl prove anything. The best argument for making it CR21 is that it casts as a sorcerer 21.Note this is NOT the same as having 21 levels in sorcerer. (Pedantry but an valid point)Once you hit 9th level spells you really hit the limit, so anything in the 17-20 range of CR's is:1) VERY daingerous2) killable by a level 17 party1 Question for all the people whining that my plan neesd a very specific conditions to happen.What precisely can a level 20 party do that is so much more powerful than a level 18 party. What can they do that will make a significant impact unpon this encounter ?Well ?A level 20 party will have exactly the same resourses and problems as a level 18 give or take 1/2 spell slots. And I highly doubt the ocmbat will last long enough for 1/2 slots to matter. So we can have this argument even if you make it CR 20, 21 or 23The fact is that over CR 17 all mobs are more or less killable by a level 17 party until you start playing epic D&D.Majere</blockquote>

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