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The deadliest CR 18 in the world, courtesy of WotC
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<blockquote data-quote="Lamoni" data-source="post: 1468514" data-attributes="member: 12680"><p>Gold is the <strong>first</strong> thing I can think of. A level 20 party will have a lot more treasure and resources than a level 17 party. Tell me that doesn't have a significant impact upon any encounter.</p><p><strong>Second</strong>, there are class abilities. Most classes gain new abilities as you level up. These also make a difference in battle.</p><p><strong>Third</strong>, the party has access to MORE spells. Maybe not different spells, but more of them. Let's say that the level 18 party had to fight two to three battles to get to the dragon, using 25% of its resources each time. Theoretically, they would still have 25-50% of their resources left and still be able to defeat the dragon. In practice this isn't very true. Having more spells is a very large benefit.</p><p><strong>Fourth</strong>, the spells are more powerful since so many are dependent on caster level.</p><p><strong>Fifth</strong>, the party has more hit points and better saves so they might be able to survive one more blow or make a save that they would otherwise fail. This leads to one more round of attacks against the dragon which could end up making a huge difference.</p><p><strong>Sixth</strong>, any fighter classes will have a higher BAB and therefore be able to actually land more hits or sink more arrows into the dragon.</p><p></p><p>If you assume the 20th level party hasn't found any treasure since level 17, and the level seventeen party just woke up and had all their spells ready, AND that there is not going to be any threat AFTER defeating the dragon so it is okay to use all your resources, then it is true that a level 17 party is not much different than a level 20 party.</p><p></p><p>I still can't believe that people are still arguing that CR 18 is appropriate. If I was DM and the players were able to kill this dragon, I would feel very guilty if I only gave experience appropriate for a CR 18 opponent.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lamoni, post: 1468514, member: 12680"] Gold is the [B]first[/B] thing I can think of. A level 20 party will have a lot more treasure and resources than a level 17 party. Tell me that doesn't have a significant impact upon any encounter. [B]Second[/B], there are class abilities. Most classes gain new abilities as you level up. These also make a difference in battle. [B]Third[/B], the party has access to MORE spells. Maybe not different spells, but more of them. Let's say that the level 18 party had to fight two to three battles to get to the dragon, using 25% of its resources each time. Theoretically, they would still have 25-50% of their resources left and still be able to defeat the dragon. In practice this isn't very true. Having more spells is a very large benefit. [B]Fourth[/B], the spells are more powerful since so many are dependent on caster level. [B]Fifth[/B], the party has more hit points and better saves so they might be able to survive one more blow or make a save that they would otherwise fail. This leads to one more round of attacks against the dragon which could end up making a huge difference. [B]Sixth[/B], any fighter classes will have a higher BAB and therefore be able to actually land more hits or sink more arrows into the dragon. If you assume the 20th level party hasn't found any treasure since level 17, and the level seventeen party just woke up and had all their spells ready, AND that there is not going to be any threat AFTER defeating the dragon so it is okay to use all your resources, then it is true that a level 17 party is not much different than a level 20 party. I still can't believe that people are still arguing that CR 18 is appropriate. If I was DM and the players were able to kill this dragon, I would feel very guilty if I only gave experience appropriate for a CR 18 opponent. [/QUOTE]
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