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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zustiur" data-source="post: 5988943" data-attributes="member: 1544">One question that comes to mind is, "What score should we be aiming at?"If the rogue has B, A-, B and the bard has B, B+, A+, what are we aiming for the wizard to have? If the wizard is currently A, A- and A+, then should we assume that he needs to be reduced to the Bard's level, or does he need to go down further to the rogue's level?On a related note, how do the specialist wizards fit into this?It would be nice (and too much to expect) if the key areas you've identified fitted in with wizard schools. They don't, but let's try spotting their focuses anyway:Abjuration - Combat, DefenceConjuration - Exploration, Circumvent Obstacle/TrapDivination - Social, Gather informationEnchantment - Combat, SupportEvocation - Combat, OffenceIllusion - Social, Resolve Aggression Without ConflictNecromancy - Combat, ControlTransmutation - Exploration, Mitigate Exposure/Hazards(Whether you think I've got those right or not, is irrelevant to the point I'm making)Surely we can assume that a specialist wizard should be A or even A+ in his chosen field. Therefore, shouldn't the generalist wizard be A- at best in these fields?What's the point of being a diviner if the generalist is just as good at gathering information?One possible way of achieving this, would be to limit more spells to a given school. That is, you can only get particularly good divination spells if you are a diviner. A generalist can never learn those spells. Nor can they learn the best illusion spells, or the best evocation spells, etc.I think we need to cut down on more than just the areas you've marked in red; but the selection of them, should be made by looking at what the specialists can do. In other words; while reducing their abilities based on how it 'breaks the game' is important, it is also important to look at those abilities in comparison with other classes. Fixing the generalist wizard so that he doesn't cause the DM too many headaches is good, but if the Diviner still causes those headaches, you haven't really solved the problem. Likewise, if he no longer breaks the game, that is good, but if he still outclasses the rogue (in the rogue's special areas), more work needs to be done.</blockquote>

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