The Most Simple And Best Rule Improvement Of All Time!!!!!

[tleilaxu]

this is a quick and easy fix for Saves and BAB.

If I have a multiclass fighter/ranger/paladin/barbarian, at fourth level she has a Base Fortitude save of +8. This is dumb. All four classes have Good Fortitude saves, but at forth level in any of them you would be nowhere close to +8.

If I have a cleric/bard/rogue/druid at fourth level, the BAB is +0. This is dumb as any single one of those classes would have +3.

THE FIX: Instead of a Fighter having a number for his saves at every level, he just has GOOD or BAD written under the save. Then he refers to the MASTER LIST (pg 22 table 1-1) to find out what those saves are. NEITHER does he have BAB bonus listed, only GOOD, MEDIUM and BAD.

So, for example, we have a Barbarian/Ranger/Fighter/Cleric at 4th level. Looking on the Table, Barbarian, Ranger and Fighter are all on the GOOD BAB list. Therefore the player has +3 from that. We look on the SAVES for Barb, Rang, and Fgt and find they GOOD Fort and BAD Will and Reflex. So, we just give him 3 levels on the GOOD (Fort) list (Giving +3 instead of the +6 he would have had) and 3 levels on the BAD (Ref and Will) list (giving +1 instead of +0).

Now, Cleric complicates things. First of all, it has a good fort save, so we just slid the Fort save up to 4th level on the good list (making it a grand total of +4 instead of the +8 it would be). The will save is something different. We have 3 levels on the BAD list and one on the GOOD list. When dealing with the different lists) we must just add in them together (for a total of +3). This "jump" from having levels in both GOOD and BAD lists is a ONE time bonus (or penalty).

For the BAB, just add in the +0 from the Cleric list to give our friend a +3 BAB, +4 Fort Save, +3 Will and +1 Reflex (instead of +3 BAB +8 Fort +2 Will +0 Reflex)

 

[mmu1]

I don't think these issues with BAB and saves are a bug, they're a feature. They only really come into play if you take only a level or two in several classes, and they're a reasonable consequence multiclassing, discouraging people from taking single levels just for the initial benefits.

 

[tleilaxu]

everytime you get a new class you have a huge increase to at least one of your saves...

 

[Silver Griffon]

If I have a cleric/bard/rogue/druid at fourth level, the BAB is +0. This is dumb as any single one of those classes would have +3.

I think it reflects training.
To become a 1st level cleric, this character had to spend a lot of time learning rituals, ceremonies, scriptures, and spells.
To become a bard, he had to invest the time necessary to become a true master of several performing arts.
To become a rogue he had to master a plethora of skills.
To become a druid he had to repeat much of the same type of training as when he became a cleric. And then he had to learn more nature lore than an eagle scout.

All of these classes have slower BAB progression than a fighter because they have a wide variety of other skills and knowledge to master that takes precedence for them. By switching classes, he had to start over with learning the basics of the new class instead of getting to spend time on "less important" things like improving his BAB. When starting a career in any of these classes, a lot of extra time is required at first level and at regular intervals (the levels that don't give them a BAB increase) to keep up with the training necessary to progress in each class' specialties. All this other training means that the character in this example has spent less time mastering combat than a single classed character of any of his individual classes has.

When it comes to saving throws, I feel what you are saying a little more. However, I can't bring myself to agree that they should be changed. Saving throws IMO are not so much something a character specifically trains for as it is a sort of side effect from the general training put into the class. For example, developing the faith necessary to become a cleric strengthens one's resolve: good Will save. Rogues master so many Dex based skills, they naturally gain a good Ref save. Even Disable Device, an Int based skill, promotes a quick wit and nimble fingers that improves the Rogue's Ref save. And so on.

If you think about it, its really pretty well balanced out. This character has learned a lot of different skills, special abilities, and spells. He has awesome saving throws. But his BAB sucks...

Edited for spelling.

 

[EarthsShadow]

take the good with the bad, right? but I do like the idea you propose and it does make for more well balanced characters as far as bonuses are concerned.

 

[Berk]

if someone ever does create a 1st level fighter/rog/ranger/barbarian/paladin/druid/cleric/wiz/sor/bard/monk they should be shot and hung. Unless of course it was just for fun to make that character. =op

 

[DM_Matt]

dead_radish used this system in the character creation system for his game in the In Character forum, altohugh the game never got off the ground.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Looks like a house rule to me.

 

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

I think it is a bug... I house ruled it too.

 

[Hollywood]

this is a quick and easy fix for Saves and BAB.

I don't see how this works for anything but characters whose classes are all the same level. If you have a 9th fighter/3rd wizard/2nd level rogue, it sorta fails.

If you feel that the current system is a bug, then why not just have the player total up all the levels of classes that have the same save and bab, find the relavent score and then total. So say you have a fighter/barbarian/bard/rogue. We'll say he's 2nd in all of them. Therefore he has 4 levels as at the fighter BAB and 4 levels at the rogue BAB, so thats a total of +4 +3 = +7 as compared to +4 +2 = +6 as written in the rules. Same mechanism applies to saves.

The cleric/bard/rogue/druid would have a +3 for BAB. But at the same time, this isn't broken for that 9th fighter/3rd wizard/2nd level rogue, he'd have a BAB of +9+1+2=12.