Dragonlance The Second Generation/Dragons of Summer Flame Omnibus inquiry

[Porcelina]

In The Second Generation, Dougan explains that, according to the dwarven story, Reorx gifted the Graygem to the dwarves before it was stolen. Dragons of Deceit effectively tells that story, explaining how the Graygem came to be in Thorbardin in the first place and how it was ultimately stolen by Destina. That one line from The Second Generation IS the plot of Dragons of Deceit.

omg. I missed this. I didn't even realize that the story for Dragons of Deceit was mentioned first in Second Generation. This is like when the Solamnic woman who helped Huma was mentioned first in Dragons of Spring Dawning. Turned out the Solamnic woman was Destina.

This is another connection from Destines to Summer Flame

 

[Porcelina]

Positive. I run the Dragonlance Nexus fan site and I stay pretty up-to-date on Dragonlance news.

How is it that you run the Dragonlance Nexus and your a Dragonlance designer but you think a post Legends Dragonlance world is more exciting than the Chaos War... which is probably the most interesting thing in Dragonlance

 

[Porcelina]

i prefer this view. That it is open ended, and I follow Mambas view that it has stopped summer flame etc happening in this new time.
So the future Astinus describes as wel will never see is Summer Flame onwards.

The future Astinus describes is the one with Summer Flame and the boring future where Summer Flame doesn't happen is the one that doesn't happen

 

[mamba]

Of course the greygem escapes. We all know it somehow escapes

we know it escaped in the previous iteration of the future

It is written. You want to say that it's unwritten and the story restarts from where Destinies left off, you better come up with something more interesting than Dragons of Summer Flame

I am perfectly fine with leaving it open, and something less disappointing than Summer Flame is easy.

You liked it, you can have it happen ‘again’, I never liked it and rejected it as canon long before we got Destinies as a way to undo it.

 

[mamba]

How is it that you run the Dragonlance Nexus and your a Dragonlance designer but you think a post Legends Dragonlance world is more exciting than the Chaos War... which is probably the most interesting thing in Dragonlance

not them, but the obvious answer is that not everyone sees the Chaos War as the most interesting thing, which you clearly can see in this thread already

 

[M.L. Martin]

Personally, I like the pre-WoS-retcons Fifth Age, but I'm an outlier among DL fans/ex-fans.

But I think the dispute is likely moot as far as the 'official' line goes (I have come to hate the 'c' word)--any future DL products from WotC will probably be WotL-centered, while novels will be whatever Weis wants to write, and she doesn't seem likely to return to the Chaos War or anything after that.

 

[Porcelina]

I believe in this case that we will have to agree to disagree. And that's okay. One of the marks of a good book is when two different people come out of it with two different impressions.

Let me challenge you with a thought, though. What was the point of Destinies if the end is that everything remains the same?

Challenge accepted!!!

If you're saying the point of Destinies is to restart the timeline from a post Legends era where the Chaos War doesn't happen and the most interesting thing that happens in the world is Sturm Majere is born, what's the point in that? Everything has been resolved. There's nothing interesting going on. If you're going to be writting in that time, you better come up with something that's more interesting than the Chaos War without it being the Chaos War.

You're the one who was talking to me from authority telling me you run the Dragonlance Nexus and that you're a Dragonlance designer... nothing you can design from post Legends would be more interesting than the Chaos War that isn't the Chaos War. What would you design? A War of the Lance part 2? Would that be more interesting than the Chaos War? How about an alien invasion? We get an alien invasion in the War of Souls... which happened because of the Chaos War. Maybe the alien dragons invade before. But people didn't like that to begin with.

The point of Destinies is to let the reader know something interesting will happen. That interesting thing is the Chaos War which we already read about because you can't read Destinies without reading Summer Flame first. That was the point of Destinies. To let all these old people know that Dragonlance is more than what they call "Holy Six". If the point of Destinies is to leave the world in a boring state where nothing really happens, that would be pointless

Consider the difference between the times.

In 2000, there was a full Dragonlance novel line going on. AD&D 2e was coming to its end. WotC had purchased TSR and was ramping up one of the biggest changes in D&D's history - the launch of D&D 3rd edition. During the time of TSR's purchase, Peter Adkison (then CEO of WotC) asked where all the talent was that made TSR so big. So he worked on getting them back. From that, the War of Souls project was born. Weis and Hickman worked to bring a splintered fanbase back together again.

I just finished reading War of Souls this year. Really enjoyed it. Someone on here said that War of Souls failed in bringing the splintered fanbase back together. It seems that Destinies splintered the fanbase even more. Those that like Summer Flame and beyond vs those that don't. Why would the authors do that? I don't think that was what they meant to do.

I'm a new fan to Dragonlance and I don't necessarily care about the history of why the books were written or how they were written... I care about the narrative that is written. I think the point of Destinies is to let the older fans know that the Chaos War and the War of Souls is just as much a part of Dragonlance as Chronicles and Legends. Why that splits the fanbase, I don't understand. If you're going to explain why this is to me, please do so without the history lesson of why and how the books were written, but from a narrative standpoint.

Dragonlance has been around for over 40 years and if it makes another 40, new fans won't care about the history of how or why the books were written, they'll care about the overall story. They might find the history interesting but it'll be the story of Dragonlance that draws them into Dragonlance.

A lot of people keep saying: "I don't like this book because at the time it was being written this was happening..." This stuff that changed the overall story from what it was supposed to be to what it is now. I don't care. All of that happened before I was born. I care about the story that did get written and the story that is now. Dragonlance is a hand-me-down story to me. For me looking at the stories I've read so far, Summer Flame is the highest point of the Dragonlance narrative. I don't think this is weird to say. I think if more people read Dragonlance for the first time they would say the same thing too

Anyway, I'm glad that you're enjoying Dragonlance.

I am. Thanks

 

[gban007]

Personally, my favourite Weis and Hickman books are the Death Gate Cycle, love that series.

For destinies, im not sure i agree with idea that the point of the series that you need to have read all the other books for first, is to essentially let you know those other books exist.

It could instead be seen as an attempt to wipe the slate clean for existing readers to clear the board of Summer Flame etc, while new readers can just read the core 6 (though admittedly a bit odd to do a trilogy that is essentially not intended for new readers).

For what the overall purpose is, im not sure we will find out until such time as either Summer Flame / Second Generatjon get reprinted as Classic Dragonlance (and on that note I found it interesting/ slightly frustrating that the recent humble bundle with Dragonlance books excluded Second Generation) or they do new books post Destinies in timeline, and whether they are post War of Souls, in a timeline where War of Souls exists, or is set post Destinies and becomes apparent it is a different timeline to Summer Flame / War of Souls.

 

[Azzy]

Personally, my favourite Weis and Hickman books are the Death Gate Cycle, love that series.

It's my favorite of their works. I need to reread it at some point.

 

[mamba]

The point of Destinies is to let the reader know something interesting will happen. That interesting thing is the Chaos War which we already read about because you can't read Destinies without reading Summer Flame first. That was the point of Destinies.

not much of a point then, since you say the reader has to be aware of it already before reading Destinies, so Destinies literally makes no point whatsoever, it only adds its own storyline.

I find it far more likely that it allows everyone to envision their own future for DL, whether that means the Chaos War happens ‘again’ or something else happens ‘instead’.

It seems that Destinies splintered the fanbase even more. Those that like Summer Flame and beyond vs those that don't.

that is not a further splintering, that rift already existed