AD&D 1E The worst thing about AD&D, and boy is it annoying

[cbwjm]

D10s do have a tendency to hide in amongst the d8s.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Monks being a level 1 death sentence and Thieves being completely pointless annoys me (Level 8 Thief same "to hit Armour Class 0" as an Orc...)

Thieves could also have a rough time of it in 1e, considering how low their Find/Remove Traps percentages start off at, and how all it takes is a single failed saving throw to kill them.

 

[Mannahnin]

D10s do have a tendency to hide in amongst the d8s.

I remarked on this last in-person session when one of the new guys was having trouble telling the difference, that my eyes have had 40+ years of practice differentiating between a regular octahedron (one of the standard platonic solids) and a pentagonal trapezohedron, so watching people fumble at it is a weird experience.

 

[Mannahnin]

Thieves could also have a rough time of it in 1e, considering how low their Find/Remove Traps percentages start off at, and how all it takes is a single failed saving throw to kill them.

And that's part of the big problem in 1E, because it's not just the percentages, it's that the guidance to the DM and expanded rules in the DMG (see p19, for example) on adjudicating Thief skills repeatedly encourage DMs to put the screws to Thieves, making things even harder than the pure skill descriptions and low success percentages necessarily imply.

People in the OSR (and older AD&D refs) have found ways to make Thieves playable by deliberately making more generous rulings. For example, by NOT having a failed Remove Traps roll set off the trap.

 

[Fenris-77]

The worst thing? But do doctors hate it, that's the real question.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

And that's part of the big problem in 1E, because it's not just the percentages, it's that the guidance to the DM and expanded rules in the DMG (see p19, for example) on adjudicating Thief skills repeatedly encourage DMs to put the screws to Thieves, making things even harder than the pure skill descriptions and low success percentages necessarily imply.

People in the OSR (and older AD&D refs) have found ways to make Thieves playable by deliberately making more generous rulings. For example, by NOT having a failed Remove Traps roll set off the trap.

I was a relatively forgiving DM back then, but some of the stuff I remember pulling on my players, it's a wonder they let me run at all (sorry about that random Kobold with a Nine Lives Stealer). Still, I daresay I was better than anyone else we could've gotten to run for us. We were all a bunch of kids back then and I was still learning.

I liked how 2e's kit system enabled you to specialize, so that you could at least be decent at the start for what you wanted your core competencies to be.

 

[Voadam]

one of the big reasons people think thieves are so bad is because the rules were ambiguous about how thief abilities worked. Or were supposed to work. As confirmed with Tim Kask, anyone could try to be stealthy, or open a lock. The thief abilties were there for tasks that were considered too hard for any other class to reasonably attempt. They weren't meant to be used for every task. But that's how most players interpreted the rules.

They are still fairly terrible.

Thieves are mechanically essentially variant spell-less wizards who can use swords, leather armor, and have d6 hp and slightly better attacks than a straight MU. Even the big standout power of +4 to hit and damage multiplier backstab which looks like a decent ability in the PH is crippled in the DMG with restrictions to actually being able to use it. They are generally not as good as a spell less cleric. They are generally better than an MU at low levels.

Comparing them to fighters they are limited in AC to leather armor versus plate and shield, limited weapons, worse attack chances, two steps down on HD size, and no chance for super good str or con bonuses. A fighter in leather armor going sneaky and picking locks and such has a couple of mechanical advantages over a thief, better attacks and hp being prominent. This even applies generally in the periods when a thief is a level ahead of a fighter with the same xp.

 

[Mannahnin]

They are generally better than an MU at low levels.

Generally, yeah, unless the MU is a little lucky with their spell selection. Sleep and Charm are still killers, but of course it's a 30% chance to get one of those.

 

[Lanefan]

D10s do have a tendency to hide in amongst the d8s.

And d4s always sink to the bottom of the bag.