6E Theory Theory Craft: Should Nova Abilities Be Cut?

[Zardnaar]

So my hypothetical simple balanced D&D is 10 lvls and cuts dailies and short rest/encounter stuff.

No dailies, encounter powers, action surge. Basically there will always be a problem of a group having thrm available vs ones that dont (they're on cool down).

You can roflstomp the monsters to easily. 4E it msthibslky speeds you up. Either way the result is mostly pre ordained.

If you built a very simple prototype for testing (4 races, 4 classes potentially race=class again).

Each class gets 1 attack. Damage scales lvl 5 and 10. Wizards have a basic elemental blast. Havent thought to hard about AoE.

Encounter powers might need to be added. No rest required. They're fairly basic. Fireball for example would be 4d6 damage maybe 5. Theyre fixed each class gets two combat ones. No more than 4 total eg second wind might make it through.

Monster hp goes back to 3.0 levels. Tweaked. If ability scores get cut maybe back to 2E levels maybe marginally more.

A big bad might be equivalent roughly a adult dragon in 5.5. Monsters top out there probably less hp.

Thoughts on resurrection of B/X ability scores. +1 bonus 13-15, +2 16, 17 18 +3.

So thats it. 10 levels, no moving parts as such maybe you get a choice of weapon styles or weapon masteries or what type of elemental damage you want to use.

Magic tops out at 3rd to 5th level and its fixed. Want different spells new class. A blasting wizard maybe gets 2 cantrips fireball and fly. Witch might deal psychic damage and some fixed control spells.

Martials deal more damage plus skills, spellcasters get 1 maybe 2 utility things on top of basic cantrip level stuff.

No choices beyond class and race minor class abilities.

If youre using bounded accuracy ability scores are to high. Potentially bring back +3 ceiling vs +5.

Monster hp bloat nuked from orbit.

Monsters kind of hybrid 4E/5.5 but 3.0 level hit points. PC damage is vastly lower.

Nova abilities drastically reigned in or eliminated.

 

[Incenjucar]

1st round novas are the bigger problem because it can preclude actual encounter drama and resource attrition. A bias toward needing a round of setup (or an ambush) before warming up to big whammies would do a lot, ideally with 1st round defenses being strong so it doesn't actually create party wipes. But that's going to feel bad to a lot of players used to starting with a Level 8 nuke.

 

[Zardnaar]

1st round novas are the bigger problem because it can preclude actual encounter drama and resource attrition. A bias toward needing a round of setup (or an ambush) before warming up to big whammies would do a lot, ideally with 1st round defenses being strong so it doesn't actually create party wipes. But that's going to feel bad to a lot of players used to starting with a Level 8 nuke.

Yeah. Modern design likes big flashy abilities but monsters get annihilated due to focus fire.

Or what looks good on paper isnt due to bloated monster hp.

Complex-simple, fast-slow.

 

[MichaelSomething]

It would make a good module.

 

[jmartkdr2]

The problem with this goal is: nova abilities are fun. They're one of the best ways to make pcs feel powerful, and feeling powerful is one of the best and most popular aspects of modern DnD. Taking them away will cause players to leave.

I think you'd be better served by focusing on limiting alpha-strike tactics, as they can cut the tension out of the game and in extreme cases prevent everyone from getting a turn. Needing a turn or two to set up you big attack is also more dramatic.

IE Make rage damage bonuses increase over the duration of the rage, make casting powerful spells slower, make it take a couple turns to activate all of your gish's attack bonuses, etc.

 

[Zardnaar]

The problem with this goal is: nova abilities are fun. They're one of the best ways to make pcs feel powerful, and feeling powerful is one of the best and most popular aspects of modern DnD. Taking them away will cause players to leave.

I think you'd be better served by focusing on limiting alpha-strike tactics, as they can cut the tension out of the game and in extreme cases prevent everyone from getting a turn. Needing a turn or two to set up you big attack is also more dramatic.

IE Make rage damage bonuses increase over the duration of the rage, make casting powerful spells slower, make it take a couple turns to activate all of your gish's attack bonuses, etc.

Yeah a build up ability.

How do you make action surge trigger round 3.?

Ironically the popular burst abilities aren't doing what toy think as tge bloat HP to compensate. Technically youre doing more damage.

 

[jmartkdr2]

For build-up fighters: maybe give them an adrenaline trait that goes up whenever you attack or take damage, and it needs to reach a certain point to use action surge. It could also affect things like second wind, superiority dice and other subclass features.

It should stack with barbarian adrenaline, although they use it differently.

 

[TwoSix]

I think it's a great idea. Move dailies/limited use stuff out of the class mechanics, and into items/treasure. Going nova requires a limited resource, not using something that contributes to 5MWD.

Combo points, tempo based resources, abilities that require conditions, etc, are all ways to add some complexity without requiring resource attrition.

 

[TwoSix]

Magic tops out at 3rd to 5th level and its fixed. Want different spells new class. A blasting wizard maybe gets 2 cantrips fireball and fly. Witch might deal psychic damage and some fixed control spells.

Martials deal more damage plus skills, spellcasters get 1 maybe 2 utility things on top of basic cantrip level stuff.

No choices beyond class and race minor class abilities.

If youre using bounded accuracy ability scores are to high. Potentially bring back +3 ceiling vs +5.

Monster hp bloat nuked from orbit.

Monsters kind of hybrid 4E/5.5 but 3.0 level hit points. PC damage is vastly lower.

Nova abilities drastically reigned in or eliminated.

Yea, this part I'm really on board with. Simple, steamlined core. Add customization via modules. The class is just a skeleton, the meat comes from other options derived from settings and modules.

 

[Remathilis]

I'm sure you could create a game where like that, but it won't be D&D. Two of the main four classes are essentially glass cannons designed for Nova attacks. To change that is to completely revise their play style. The rogue's sneak attack and the wizards big AoEs are major parts of their kit. Without them, you are going to get slogs, especially if clerics and fighters keep their tankiness.