6E Theory Theory Craft: Should Nova Abilities Be Cut?

[Zardnaar]

it still beats just rolling d20 round after round and saying; this round 7 damage, next round 9 damage

Maybe. Its a simplicity vs complexity thing. Thats subjective. And they inflate the monster hp so youre not really dealing more damage as such. Well technically you are but you're no better off.

 

[FrogReaver]

@Zardnaar

A purely tactical, non‑attrition, non‑nova model collapses the game into a single decision layer, moment to moment positioning and DPR throughput, which only serves tactically focused players. Because encounter difficulty becomes the sole axis of challenge, the system becomes hypersensitive to GM calibration:

• If difficulty is even slightly off, tacticians feel it immediately because their optimizations no longer matter, and the encounter becomes either trivial or unwinnable.
• This forces the GM to rely on increasingly contrived, precision tuned encounters to keep tactical players satisfied, which in turn leaves other player types with no room to breathe, improvise, negotiate, explore, or express identity.

Because RPG difficulty is inherently table relative, no universal encounter model can satisfy all player types. Attrition is the only mechanical structure that provides shared player stakes across heterogeneous motivations, while nova capabilities stabilize the randomness introduced by diverse player behaviors. Together, attrition and nova mechanics allow each player type to contribute in the way they prefer, preserve distinct identity expression, and create spotlight moments that feel meaningful to them.

A game that keeps difficulty extremely tight also suppresses the improvisational space that roleplaying depends on. When encounters must be precision tuned to maintain tactical relevance, players quickly learn that unexpected choices, dramatic escalations, or creative detours risk breaking the balance the GM is trying to preserve. This pushes them toward safe, predictable behaviors and discourages the kind of spontaneous character expression that makes roleplaying feel alive. The tighter the tactical envelope, the more players feel pressure to stay inside it, and the less freedom they have to act in ways that reflect personality, emotion, or narrative intent.

TLDR: Keep nova. Possibly minimize it compared to 5e, but do not remove it.

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

Not to be obtuse here, but, isn't this how 4e worked? Few, if any nova abilities - dailies were hardly encounter ending and you never got many of them. Wasn't this the source of the criticism of the combat grind? That you couldn't end encounters really quickly and instead had to go 5-8 rounds for each encounter?

Sure, 4e characters had dailies. But, their dailies were nothing like what you get in 3e or 5e. Far, far less powerful and encounter ending. So, the party had to work together to synergize attacks in order to end encounters faster.

Tweak the 4e math to end encounters in, say, 3-5 rounds and you're pretty much achieving everything @Zardnaar wants. Simple mechanics, basic math, few or no encounter ending dailies and making it rather pointless to nova.

 

[Zardnaar]

Not to be obtuse here, but, isn't this how 4e worked? Few, if any nova abilities - dailies were hardly encounter ending and you never got many of them. Wasn't this the source of the criticism of the combat grind? That you couldn't end encounters really quickly and instead had to go 5-8 rounds for each encounter?

Sure, 4e characters had dailies. But, their dailies were nothing like what you get in 3e or 5e. Far, far less powerful and encounter ending. So, the party had to work together to synergize attacks in order to end encounters faster.

Tweak the 4e math to end encounters in, say, 3-5 rounds and you're pretty much achieving everything @Zardnaar wants. Simple mechanics, basic math, few or no encounter ending dailies and making it rather pointless to nova.

4E had nova. They're the daily powers an encounter.

In modern 4E terms the players are doing something like this.

Daily
Encounter
Encounter
At will

Long rest.

So if nova are unavailable combat drags of they're available and everyone does them the monster gets obliterated. And at eill beater epuld need around +4 to +7 passive damage (assuming nova is d8-d12 or 2d6) in size

Is that a problem? Not sure. Might be fun ymmv.

Dumping AEDU or dailies for AE is an option. Still have some nova.

 

[Horwath]

Dumping AEDU or dailies for AE is an option. Still have some nova.

This I agree,
4E worked as short rest was actually short so they could be taken any time and any number of times.

in 5E short rest classes usually get the short end of the stick as there is few short rests between long rests.

if all classes are on short rest and short rest is 1 min, then we could have some more balance and only HP/HD/exhaustion are tied to long rest.

 

[Incenjucar]

4E had massive HP bloat that made combat inherently sloggy, a lower to-hit rate than 5E, far fewer "no actually I hit" buttons, a smaller number average of powers per character, and only three saving throws. It's not a super useful comparison here.

 

[Zardnaar]

4E had massive HP bloat that made combat inherently sloggy, a lower to-hit rate than 5E, far fewer "no actually I hit" buttons, a smaller number average of powers per character, and only three saving throws. It's not a super useful comparison here.

More indication if nova abilities are unavailable combats going to be even bigger slot?

 

[Zardnaar]

This I agree,
4E worked as short rest was actually short so they could be taken any time and any number of times.

in 5E short rest classes usually get the short end of the stick as there is few short rests between long rests.

if all classes are on short rest and short rest is 1 min, then we could have some more balance and only HP/HD/exhaustion are tied to long rest.

Why not just have encounter powers always available? If one must use them.

 

[Horwath]

Why not just have encounter powers always available? If one must use them.

because then it would be at-will powers

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

4E had nova. They're the daily powers an encounter.

In modern 4E terms the players are doing something like this.

Daily
Encounter
Encounter
At will

Long rest.

So if nova are unavailable combat drags of they're available and everyone does them the monster gets obliterated. And at eill beater epuld need around +4 to +7 passive damage (assuming nova is d8-d12 or 2d6) in size

Is that a problem? Not sure. Might be fun ymmv.

Dumping AEDU or dailies for AE is an option. Still have some nova.

Ahh, but, you have the Essentials classes, which, IIRC, removed all the dailies. Or at least most of them.