6E Theory Thoughts on the balance of classes across editions (past, present, future)

[Toe Knee Nose]

If we compare a PC with a +4 and a PC with a +0 and 2 uses of Tactical Mind rolling against a DC15 check hereare the averages:

What PC has a +4? That's a 1st level trained PC with a +2 stat bonus. That's probably the lowest difference you will find. A +5 at 1st level isn't that difficult to get after all, and add on something like Guidance and now I'm +7 to +10 compared to +2-+5.

So, yes, in your theorycrafted white room where the incompetent character (+0) is competing with a 1st level barely competent character, Tactical Mind is great.

And I'm sorry, but a single 2nd level spell which is pretty common, which will almost never be cast in combat when the casting time will matter is not a "lot more costly".

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

Ok well the one that was addressed to me said " I don't really want "real" examples"

And so my question stands, how should I answer your query - "...why are you using tactical shift?" - if not with examples from play?

Sorry, but, none of that post was addressed to you.

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

No you won't.

Please provide the math to back up this claim. I showed the math above with what I claimed.

It's YOUR MATH. YOU STATED THIS.

 

[tetrasodium]

Because you will run out of Second Winds by the 8th check. So, any checks after that, Tactical Mind won't help you.

And, you have no control over which of those 8 checks will be affected. Not all checks are equal after all. You can just as easily turn a fairly inconsequential check into a success as a clutch check.

sigh

Also @Lanefan, you voiced uncertainty about what it does. It does that

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

sigh

View attachment 447389
Also @Lanefan, you voiced uncertainty about what it does. It does that

YOu only regain ONE Second WInd on a short rest.

 

[tetrasodium]

YOu only regain ONE Second WInd on a short rest.

annnnnnd? The trouble is that the rules for that short rest are incredibly incomplete at best. At worst they are written to invite players to engage in a nearly unilateral veto over the GM's ability to adjudicate anything about those short rests including if & when they successfully complete should p;ayers decide they deserve or require more short rests during an adventuring day. The bar to start one may as well be "not actively in combat" & there is no reason PCs can't simply try again after an interruption if interrupted hard enough

 

[Zardnaar]

BG3 has a 5.5 mod and the fighter ability can trigger ever skill check.

So if you use a few skill checks it works well tabletop for clutch situations.

 

[Lanefan]

sigh

View attachment 447389
Also @Lanefan, you voiced uncertainty about what it does. It does that

I liked this post in thanks for your posting the ability write-up.

That's not to mean I like the ability itself. It's another of those awful mechanics that let you retroactively change a roll after you've seen the result. Non-starter for me.

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

Ok folks. I am not positively contributing to this thread, so I'll be bowing out. Might check in from time to time, but, my presence here is not productive.

 

[ECMO3]

What PC has a +4? That's a 1st level trained PC with a +2 stat bonus. That's probably the lowest difference you will find.

There are 18 skills, most classes are trained in 2 your background affords another 2. That leaves the vast majority, 14 of the 18 skills (78%), untrained for most PCs.

The lowest difference you will find is negative, +4 or greater difference is going to be uncommon. If the PC is playing a Rogue there can will be a maximum of 6 skills with greater a +5 or greater difference with a 16 ability score in tier 1 and then in the other 12 skills there will be less than a +5 difference, to a minimum difference of -1.

Also let's remember a 1st level Fighter is also proficient in 4 skills and only one of those 4 can be based on Strength.

A +5 at 1st level isn't that difficult to get after all, and add on something like Guidance and now I'm +7 to +10 compared to +2-+5.

It is difficult to get in more than a few skills in tier 1 and that +5 only applies to those small number of skills.

Guidance stacks with Tactical Mind so it is irrelevant and that would make it +6 to +9, that is not a difference unless you are talking about a PC class that can cast Guidance on themselves, and that would only apply to a Cleric which has generally poor skill options for either the exploration or social pillars.

So, yes, in your theorycrafted white room where the incompetent character (+0) is competing with a 1st level barely competent character, Tactical Mind is great.

This is rich. You are the one theory crafting in the white room, not me!

You are on here saying an ability you did not know even existed and have never seen in play is not powerful and you are not using any statistics, examples or mathematics to even back it up that claim, just attacking other people's assertions when they explain how they have seen it used in play and how it is mathematically powerful.

I am using statistics and examples from play. Neither of these is whiteroom theory crafting.

And I'm sorry, but a single 2nd level spell which is pretty common, which will almost never be cast in combat when the casting time will matter is not a "lot more costly".

I don't think you really are sorry.

Stealth (and other skill checks) will be used in combat and when they are used there is no action economy involved in applying the bonus from Tactical Mind. That is the point!

The reason Pass Without Trace won't be used in combat is because it takes an action to cast. If my PC is trying to hide this turn, in combat, casting Pass Without Trace does not help due to the action cost, neither does Guidance. Other abilities, like Tactical Mind, Favored by the Gods, Lucky, Inspired Eclipse, Skulker etc are all much less powerful than PWT for making stealth checks but they do help that PC hide in combat better due to their lower action cost. That is why the difference in action cost matters.