to slay a god (saving throw rules help needed)

[ChickDM]

My Company recently went up against an Avatar of Malar. I'm using 3.5 rules but could only find 2e rules for Malar in Faiths and Avatars.

Malar's Avatar has a save vs spells listed as 6.

Could someone please refresh my memory of how saves work in 2e? I haven't played 2e in probably 20 years. Thanks

 

[Alzrius]

My Company recently went up against an Avatar of Malar. I'm using 3.5 rules but could only find 2e rules for Malar in Faiths and Avatars.

Malar's Avatar has a save vs spells listed as 6.

Could someone please refresh my memory of how saves work in 2e? I haven't played 2e in probably 20 years. Thanks

Unlike in 3E, where the difficulty of saving against an effect was determined by the effect itself (e.g. saving against a 7th-level spell cast by a wizard with a 19 Intelligence had a DC of 21), saving throws in 2E had their difficulty determined by the person/creature making the save. If a fighter had a saving throw of 11 versus spells, that was the value he used when saving against a spell from any source, from an apprentice to an arch-mage. It's an interesting philosophical difference, where the onus of how well you can resist something is based solely on your ability, rather than your ability versus the ability of the thing attacking you (e.g. 3E's combination of saving throw bonuses versus escalating DCs). In 2E, if the game really wanted the force being brought to bear to seem more powerful than usual, it added a penalty to the save (e.g. "the evil wizard's magic is so powerful, all saves against spells he casts are at a -2").

More specifically, in 2E you had a number for each category of saves (there were five altogether), and you had to roll equal or higher than that number in order to successfully make your save. So if Malar has a saving throw of 6 vs. spells, he'll successfully save against a spell cast at him if he rolls a 6 or better on a d20 (giving him a 75% chance of success).

 

[ChickDM]

Thank you for such a clear, concise, and overall perfect explanation.

 

[diaglo]

make sure you check magic resistance first before you make a saving throw roll.

 

[ChickDM]

make sure you check magic resistance first before you make a saving throw roll.

Can you clarify? Are you mentioning something specific to Malar, or just in general?

 

[diaglo]

Can you clarify? Are you mentioning something specific to Malar, or just in general?

i don't recall if Malar had MR off the top of my head. but would guess so since he is an Avatar.

 

[Alzrius]

Can you clarify? Are you mentioning something specific to Malar, or just in general?

It's in general. Many (but not all) monsters have Magic Resistance, which is listed as a percentile score (e.g. MR 40%).

Magic Resistance is checked whenever a spell is cast on a creature that has it, prior to making a saving throw. When that happens, the caster needs to roll percentile dice and score above the listed MR number for that monster. If the roll is equal to or less than that number, the spell fails to affect it completely (though, if I recall correctly, if it's an area-effect spell, it still potentially affects other creatures in the area). If the spellcaster does roll above the MR value, then the spell works normally, and a saving throw (if any) is made, etc.

One of the major differences between 2E Magic Resistance and 3E Spell Resistance is that the value of 2E MR is flat - it doesn't change depending on the level of the spellcaster. If Malar has MR 40%, for example, then he has a 40% chance of shrugging off a spell from anyone, be they a 1st-level spellcaster or a 21st-level spellcaster.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Malar is a jerk and I hope you kick his ass. He borrowed my best shovel three years ago and hasn't returned it. He parks in front of my house all the time when the space in front of his house is wide open. And, worst of all, he breaks into my kitchen in the middle of the night and drinks orange juice straight from the carton.

 

[diaglo]

It's in general. Many (but not all) monsters have Magic Resistance, which is listed as a percentile score (e.g. MR 40%).

Magic Resistance is checked whenever a spell is cast on a creature that has it, prior to making a saving throw. When that happens, the caster needs to roll percentile dice and score above the listed MR number for that monster. If the roll is equal to or less than that number, the spell fails to affect it completely (though, if I recall correctly, if it's an area-effect spell, it still potentially affects other creatures in the area). If the spellcaster does roll above the MR value, then the spell works normally, and a saving throw (if any) is made, etc.

One of the major differences between 2E Magic Resistance and 3E Spell Resistance is that the value of 2E MR is flat - it doesn't change depending on the level of the spellcaster. If Malar has MR 40%, for example, then he has a 40% chance of shrugging off a spell from anyone, be they a 1st-level spellcaster or a 21st-level spellcaster.

that was not the case with 1edADnD MR. it is dependent on caster lvl. 11th lvl wizards being the one it was set. add or subtract 5% for each level above or below 11th

edit: example a monster with 50% MR is not affected by a 1st lvl caster at all. 50 + 50 = 100% MR

edit2: 2edADnD got rid of the caster lvl fluctuation.