Today I learned +

[Reynard]

I believe I’m with @Thomas Shey on this one. Merely using the term “Native American”- at least as I’ve seen it used- is no more racist or colonialist than using “European” “African” or “Asian”. I mean, how many different cultures are you lumping together within those terms?

Right, and if we use "Asian" and "African" and "European" to erase distinguishing cultural differences between the thousands of cultures of those places, that is also a downstream effect of racism and colonialism. It is an aspect of othering and dehumanizing people.

I think people are missing the important part of this -- using that terminology IN ORDER to erase those differences. "Asian" is innocuous when you use it to talk about "people that live on the continent of Asia." It is not innocuous when you use it to erase the difference between (just as an example) the people of Korea and the people of Mongolia (each of which, obviously, has its own diversity of cultures).

Intent here matters.

The reason we don’t call them just “Americans” is to distinguish their cultures & histories from those who came from those here now who came from other continents- a good thing, IMHO.

Well, the reason many people don't just call them "Americans" is to distinguish them, but not always in a good way.

 

[Ryujin]

All I am saying is that if folks think that all of those First Nations folks fit into a single box, THAT is a result of racism and colonialism. I am not making any accusations against any person in particular. I am talking about how our society has erased the vast diversity of the people that lived here before European colonialism, embodied by how the term "Native American" is used coloquially.

It is also important to remember that even progressive people and even people of color themselves have been subject to and are deeply impacted by that colonialism, in attitude and language. People aren't immune to those social forces by mere chance of birth.

Sometimes literally erased. For example the Beothuk tribe in Newfoundland.

 

[Whisper-Kitten]

That is interesting, I never knew that. I know they sent their Navy to US ports, partially because the their main enemy were the British, who supported the South.

Supported might be a strong word. Elements supported the confedaracy, but it was far from absolute.

 

[dragoner]

Supported might be a strong word. Elements supported the confedaracy, but it was far from absolute.

Maybe, though they sent their highest tech weapons as well, such as Whithworth Rifles:

The Whitworth rifle was an English-made percussion cap rifled musket used in the latter half of the 19th century. A single-shot muzzleloader with excellent long-range accuracy for its era, especially when used with a telescopic sight, the Whitworth rifle was widely regarded as the world's first sniper rifle.

The Whitworth rifle saw extensive use with the Confederate sharpshooters in the American Civil War, claiming the lives of several Union generals, including Major General John Sedgwick, one of the highest-ranking Union officers killed during the Civil War, shot on 9 May 1864, at Spotsylvania. In October 2017, a surviving example of a Confederate Whitworth rifle was auctioned with a hammer price of $161,000.

The Whitworth rifle was considered to be the very best rifle of its time in terms of accuracy, when compared to other British, French, American rifles, or those produced elsewhere.

Whitworth rifle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Similar to the US giving Stinger Missiles to Afghan Mujahideen.

 

[dragoner]

I believe I’m with @Thomas Shey on this one. Merely using the term “Native American”- at least as I’ve seen it used- is no more racist or colonialist than using “European” “African” or “Asian”. I mean, how many different cultures are you lumping together within those terms?

The reason we don’t call them just “Americans” is to distinguish their cultures & histories from those who came from those here now who came from other continents- a good thing, IMHO.

I would say it is intertwined with racism, and colonialism, I don't know how you would separate it out. I have no place in the world. For a lot of us, we were illiterate peasants up until last century, who knows? My Grandmother gave my sister a sword from my Grandfather's stuff, because she wanted to do the traditional sword dance. I had to laugh, it has Arabic writing on it. Live and let live.

 

[dragoner]

"Asian" is innocuous when you use it to talk about "people that live on the continent of Asia." It is not innocuous when you use it to erase the difference between (just as an example) the people of Korea and the people of Mongolia (each of which, obviously, has its own diversity of cultures).

Also I have heard people ask Asians, "What kind of Asian are you?" Which is weirdly wrong and kind of racist.

 

[Ryujin]

Also I have heard people ask Asians, "What kind of Asian are you?" Which is weirdly wrong and kind of racist.

An old friend, who sadly passed about 10 years back, was of Pakistani descent. He used to get a kick out of when people would ask, "Where are you from?", in that usual racist way. His truthful answer was "Glasgow."

 

[dragoner]

An old friend, who sadly passed about 10 years back, was of Pakistani descent. He used to get a kick out of when people would ask, "Where are you from?", in that usual racist way. His truthful answer was "Glasgow."

My Dad looked very Asian, and people would ask where he was from and he'd say Dushanbe or Tashkent, just to mess with them.

 

[Aeson]

An old friend, who sadly passed about 10 years back, was of Pakistani descent. He used to get a kick out of when people would ask, "Where are you from?", in that usual racist way. His truthful answer was "Glasgow."

With a perfect Scottish accent I hope.

 

[gnarlygninja]

However by arguing it, they are saying more about themselves than Columbus, similar to if someone was arguing for statues of confederates. More pernicious effect though is that if it is a colonizer arguing against any of it, is it just hypocrisy, a game of one upmanship? Ultimately the end game becomes bad air, it was never meant for anything else.

Edit: Sidenote, I had to go look up when we got rid of Columbus day and it was 1992! 34 years ago.

I'm not sure who "we" is, but Columbus Day is definitely still around. Federal holiday and the president even makes a proclamation about it.

That cartoon was most likely produced by Prager U a right wing propaganda mill.

It was, and they had many objectionable things to say as you might imagine. I was avoiding naming them as that is usually the line where 'no politics' gets enforced.