TPK : And you think you know whose fault it is...

[Corsair]

What do you do when you have someone in your party who is completely devoid of tactical acumen, and they nearly singlehandedly ruin every attempt at strategy you try to use?

Last night, our party was playing through the 2nd module in the Coin of Power path for Kalamar. The party:

Human Druid 4 (me) with wolf companion
Halfling Rogue 4 (NPC)
Half-Orc Barbarian2/Cleric2
Human Ranger2/Fighter2

Over the course of the session, we got into 3 combats. In the first two, the human fighter was relatively useless. He spent most of the time attempting to fast dismount his camel and falling on his face in the sand, or spending entire rounds unstrapping his shield from the pack animals while the barbarian, wolf, and all the summoned critters I could find were getting bitten by ant-lions or con-drained by evil plants. My Augumented Hippogriffs carried the day for the most part in those fights, so it wasn't TOO big of a deal.

In the third combat though, we are massively out numbered by gnolls, and I'm low on spells since I spent a bunch of level 2 slots healing con damage from the plant fight. We're doing ok for a while, with the barbarian and wolf dropping gnolls, and we're holding a decent defensive line... Then the human fighter (who by the way has the best AC in the group even without his armor on, with the gnolls needing 19s to hit him thanks to dex, magic shield, expertise, dodge-type feat, and some shield bonus feat) starts breaking ranks, letting the gnolls swarm in around our side and surround the rest of us.

Now he has a chance to redeem himself. He moves around the back of the group, and he can step up and flank the gnoll who is attacking the rear (where my poor unarmored druid is)... but instead of taking his last square of movement forward, he takes it BACKWARDS, farther away from us. This allows the gols to not only surround us, but also surround him. By the next round, the barbarian is on the ground in a crumpled heap. One round later, the human in question is out for the count. The druid manages to stick around another round thanks to a wand of CLW and help from his wolf, but they can't last againt the 12 or so gnolls surrounding them.

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Now this was a difficult encounter, and I don't completely blame one player since we probably would've gotten our butts kicked regardless, but when added to his oh-so-usefulness previously in the night, it bothered me. Combine this with the fact that he's often easily distracted from whatever our goals are at the time by anything that even gives a hint of possible profit, and it makes for an annoying time. NEarly every time we try to accomplish something, we have to worry about him making some poor choice which either gets us killed, or makes life more difficult for the rest of us.

As another example, after the TPK, he is playing Bloodbowl with the DM. He manages to get a pass to a player beyond the DMs back row, and it is physically impossible for the DM's team to catch him as he runs to the end zone. Yet for some reason, rather than just ending his turn and scoring on his first action of his next turn, he spends nearly 5 minutes hemming and hawing over how to best injure as many of the other team as possible.

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Thanks for letting me rant.

Now for the audience participation part:

How do you deal with a player who has no idea of tactics? This guy will honestly listen to a plan, nod, and then completely ignore it. The worst part is that he actually weighs the options, and does something different. If you ask him afterwards why he did it, he just says "Well I dunno." and/or gets defensive. Having any sort of complex plan is doomed to failure if it requires him to do something other than "Find nearest enemy, kill nearest enemy".

Talking to him is difficult at best because he simply gets defensive, or even more annoying, passive/aggressive towards you in game.

 

[Rl'Halsinor]

I have been playing since the early 1e days with many peple and in many groups and I can tell you that your friend would either have to get with the flow of the party or he would be out-- period. It is one thing to make a bone-headed choice from time to time (we all do it), but it sounds like this guy continuously does it. Passive-aggressive people basically agree and then do their own thing. Their motto is: "You won't control me." I would have a final sit down face to face with him, other players and DM included (I wouldn't do this alone; have you talked to your DM?), and in no uncertain terms let him know how frustrating his behavior is and how it is robbing other members the joy of play. Who cares if he gets defensive. You need to set boundaries and stick to them. Your no needs to mean no. One of my DMing rules has always been that I will not sacrifice the group for one individual.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Next time, hire/be a wizard to incapacitate his character (after he has demonstrated his idiocy) whenever you get into a fight. Sleep, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Color Spray, Cause Fear, Command, Random Action, etc.
Maybe just tie him up before the fight. Maybe Charm Person?

That is, unless you are okay with kicking him out of the group.

 

[Virel]

The poster above makes a good point.

However, sometimes making this issue clear in game in character might get the mess across if the other players have an issue with what he's doing. After one of these fights where he "causes" problems, I think the other members of his group would confront him about it. I also think a barbarian might just pound this fighters head into the ground to make the point, either he's going to be a team player or the group will kick this character out. Get the other PC's to jump in. While you might put up with him, I don't think the type of people that go adventuring would put up with him very long at all.

We had a Calvalier back in the 80's that did exactly the same sort of things. He ended up getting ganged by his own adventure party and taught a very hard lesson in game.

 

[Alhazred]

I agree with Rl'Halsinor and VirgilCaine: The guy needs to go. From what you describe, it's not his character who's the problem but he himself. If he were playing a tactically clueless character who refuses to work with the party, the problem could probably be resolved amincably and without resorting to tossing players from the game. When it's the player who's the problem, well, that makes things much harder.

I'd say talk to him first (perhaps he doesn't realise his character's behaviour is unwelcome?), although I gather you've tried talking. The next step, toss him from the group (with far warning, of course).

 

[Psychic Warrior]

he is playing Bloodbowl with the DM. He manages to get a pass to a player beyond the DMs back row, and it is physically impossible for the DM's team to catch him as he runs to the end zone. Yet for some reason, rather than just ending his turn and scoring on his first action of his next turn, he spends nearly 5 minutes hemming and hawing over how to best injure as many of the other team as possible.

Never played Blood Bowl have you? That is a perfectly acceptable tactic (and one I would be stunned someone didn't do to me).

For the real issue you are just going to have to take the same old path that everyone else has had to take - talk to him as a group. If he gets defensive ask him why he is doing so. Passive/aggressive - tell him to grow the hell up and quit being a d***.

 

[Brain]

I've been through something almost exactly the same. The problem seemed to be, as Rl'Halsinor mentioned, the "you won't control me" factor. I'm no psychologist and don't really know how to deal with that. What we did was sigh and talk to the guy afterward about things he could have done differently.

 

[pogre]

This is a difficult situation that often comes up. The solution is not to include him on any of your plans and to never expect support from him.

Treat all situations as though you are three-person party. If the encounter looks too tough for three - run. If he puts himself in a bad position, let him go.

Not a great solution perhaps, but it is practical. It also allows you to start enjoying the game again without worrying about player "X" is going to do.

 

[scourger]

People play and enjoy the game in different ways. What is fun for you (or me) may not be fun for someone else.

I think that a group does better when the characters engage in combat immediately and fully when battle is joined. That is the way I enjoy playing the game. I want to use whatever offensive capabilities my character has to engage the enemy with the most powerful weapon I can bring to bear as quickly as I can put it on the target. I don't hoard magic items. I am frustrated when other players move for position, hang back or save an item "for the right moment." I eventually compensate for it by lurking behind them and hoarding stuff until they commit to a course of action that I may or may not join. I call this "the last PC standing" game.

Some players believe that individual characters and therefore the group does better by weighing their individual character options. They like to lurk behind others or to flee direct combat. Saving items for use later use that may be more advantageous than the current situation is fun for them. They get frustrated when I charge headlong into the fray. They usually compensate for it by allowing me to overexpose myself to my doom (and sometimes their own), which usually results in my above-noted more "careful" play.

I'm not saying that one style or another is right or wrong. It's a matter of personal preference. The DM (including me) usually brings his preferred style of play to the game he
runs. It sounds as if your DM may expect a cretain style of play that the oneplayer just hasn't grasped yet. Boy, have I been there!

There are many illustrations of this concept. Here is alink to one:

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/gaming/BreakdownOfRPGPlayers.html

 

[ThoughtBubble]

I've got the exact opposite situation here.

I'm the tactically minded one. The rest of the party falls somewhere between "can't remember beyond a second or two" and "Will follow plans until there is a nearby enemy". So I do what I can. I don't include the former in any plans (slap on a buff or two, and expect them to run in and kill things). And the rest of the plans remain short and reactive. "Go over there." "Take care of him." "Gimme a hand here." and "Magical death in the next room!" tend to be the limits of what I even try for.

It works, mostly.

I'd second the idea to not count on the fighter, and then ask him for help as part of your actions. It's amasing how well most people I know respond to "I could really really use your help. Please?"

Best of luck