Traces of Magic as Diegtic Investigation Tool

[soviet]

It might be interesting to have the PCs play a more active role in investigating the magical traces. So rather than having them make sort of a passive 'detect some clues' roll, have them make a 'how many questions do you get to ask' sort of roll (perhaps with the outcome hidden). And then they can interrogate the situation by asking whose signature is it, what type of magic is it, how long ago, how powerful, what other recent spells, what targets, what energy source/amplifying items, etc, up to the limit.

Perhaps the process of investigating the trace in itself makes the trace start to disappear or become contaminated, in the same way that if you mess up dusting for fingerprints you don't get to have a second go.

Perhaps 'what kind of a trace will this leave?' is a factor that is to some extent within the control of the caster, and you can get slightly more or less powerful spell results if you make the spell traces more or less investigatable.

 

[Barner Cobblewood]

In magic settings where most everyone knows about magic, I can imagine that it might actually be obvious who did the magic, and this would create / affect the social standing of a magician. This would create an interesting setting aspect where magicians would have to keep secret the process by which their "fingerprint" is embedded in their spells so they can't be forged. Maybe "schools" are responsible for the magic they teach, and the fingerprint points to an institution rather than an individual. Then the institution fixes it.

For myself though, I'd be interested in a setting where some magicians have high reputations because of the positive good they do others, while casters who either fail to do good when they could, or who engage in destroying for good causes have lower status, while those who are bad are actively opposed and suppressed. This allows doing good to be rewarded as is, rather than all acts being modeled on conflict between good and bad. So if a PC fights, that lowers their status. If this is combined with some kind of "taint" that magic leaves in the caster I think there's lots of good plot hooks for why the PCs need to adventure.

Last, I think @Koloth 's points about contamination and overlay need to be worked out in the supplement. Along each table to work those kinds of things out from scratch is a big ask.

This is kind of rambling. Sorry. Good luck with the project.

 

[Fenris-77]

Some thoughts and questions:
How long do the traces stay around? Minutes? Days? Forever etched in local matter?
If Spell B is cast in the same spot 2 days after Spell A, does B overlay A? Or can both be found?
Is it possible that the leavings of Spell A could interfere in some way with Spell B? Cause a misfire or combine in some way to create a new and exciting spell?
There are probably one or more professions around investigating spell use and spell forensics.
Can spell forensics be used in a court of law?
Can spell traces be cleansed?
Might be business around cleaning up after spell use. Perhaps the new owner of a manor doesn't want traces of the spell(s) used to murder the former owner left in the place.

That depends on the strength of the. Weak spells might linger for a few days, with more powerful spells ranging to weeks or months.

I haven't, so far, addressed overlay. I'm presenting the idea in a somewhat modular fashion so it makes sense to mention it.

The legal standing of the idea is entirely system dependent. I will be addressing the idea though, although not in any great detail.

It might be interesting to have the PCs play a more active role in investigating the magical traces. So rather than having them make sort of a passive 'detect some clues' roll, have them make a 'how many questions do you get to ask' sort of roll (perhaps with the outcome hidden). And then they can interrogate the situation by asking whose signature is it, what type of magic is it, how long ago, how powerful, what other recent spells, what targets, what energy source/amplifying items, etc, up to the limit.

Perhaps the process of investigating the trace in itself makes the trace start to disappear or become contaminated, in the same way that if you mess up dusting for fingerprints you don't get to have a second go.

Perhaps 'what kind of a trace will this leave?' is a factor that is to some extent within the control of the caster, and you can get slightly more or less powerful spell results if you make the spell traces more or less investigatable.

This sounds a lot like a PbtA move, which I think would be a fine way to handle this idea in that system. That said, there isn't really a list of free form questions to be answered, not as written. Even the advanced version of the rules breaks down into power level, the evocative elements, general type of magic, and then specific spell/ability. I think it makes more sense to reveal those in pretty much that order. I am digging into several different ways to use this in investigations that provide more data points, but I'm still not sure it's enough meat to answer players questions. It's worth thinking about. I will be providing some specific system advice for using the idea outside of the d20, with PbtA being on that list so I'll give it some thought.

 

[Fenris-77]

I just finished a bit to cover the idea of layers residuum and how the GM can handle it in play. Mostly it's just more information and I wrote in a bunch of ways that characters working together can find out more without necessarily calling for a whole series of rolls (which is a design idea that I detest).

 

[Fenris-77]

In magic settings where most everyone knows about magic, I can imagine that it might actually be obvious who did the magic, and this would create / affect the social standing of a magician. This would create an interesting setting aspect where magicians would have to keep secret the process by which their "fingerprint" is embedded in their spells so they can't be forged. Maybe "schools" are responsible for the magic they teach, and the fingerprint points to an institution rather than an individual. Then the institution fixes it.

For myself though, I'd be interested in a setting where some magicians have high reputations because of the positive good they do others, while casters who either fail to do good when they could, or who engage in destroying for good causes have lower status, while those who are bad are actively opposed and suppressed. This allows doing good to be rewarded as is, rather than all acts being modeled on conflict between good and bad. So if a PC fights, that lowers their status. If this is combined with some kind of "taint" that magic leaves in the caster I think there's lots of good plot hooks for why the PCs need to adventure.

Last, I think @Koloth 's points about contamination and overlay need to be worked out in the supplement. Along each table to work those kinds of things out from scratch is a big ask.

This is kind of rambling. Sorry. Good luck with the project.

No, this is an interesting idea, thanks for posting it. One of the difficulties I have is that the basic idea is going to play very differently depending on setting and genre. I am going to do a spread that discusses this with reference to several kinds of settings, or perhaps more accurately several different ways that magic is located within different settings. A Call of Cthulhu game is very different that a high fantasy 5E game, for example. The issue of legality is important, as is the issue of reputation that you bring up. Hmm.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I was reading this, and thinking, “What if there was a synesthesic aspect to investigating traces of magic?”

Imagine that the residuum of each type of magic triggered sensory stimuli- as a natural, trained or imbued ability- in investigators, but ALSO that the casters’ own skills and preferences affected the sensory experiences.

And further, that with enough skill & dedicated practice, it is possible to alter the residuum in order to mimic the casting of others or conceal the type of magic used.

 

[Fenris-77]

I was reading this, and thinking, “What if there was a synesthesic aspect to investigating traces of magic?”

Imagine that the residuum of each type of magic triggered sensory stimuli- as a natural, trained or imbued ability- in investigators, but ALSO that the casters’ own skills and preferences affected the sensory experiences.

And further, that with enough skill & dedicated practice, it is possible to alter the residuum in order to mimic the casting of others or conceal the type of magic used.

That's a fascinating idea. I have no idea how to implement it, but its awesome.

As for the alteration and eliding of the residuum I'm really torn. My first instinct is not allow it all. Adding this mechanic to an existing game already carries mechanical weight and I don't want to obviate the whole idea by allowing NPCs to casually mess with it. On the other hand it's not as though the idea doesn't make any sense. I think I'll probably include it as a optional module and lets GMs decide (if I cover it at all, although lots of people have asked).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That's a fascinating idea. I have no idea how to implement it, but its awesome.

Thanks!

It probably works better in a piece of fiction instead of an RPG product, but if you can make it work…

 

[Fenris-77]

Thanks!

It probably works better in a piece of fiction instead of an RPG product, but if you can make it work…

Yeah, but description of scenes always walks that line between game and text. I think it plays.

 

[pemerton]

Rolemaster has spells for detecting spell casting (I think in various RMCs, starting with the first one).

The issue I often had, as GM, was that players would look for these traces/signatures, and then I had to make decisions about what spells had been cast in an area, by whom, etc.

I think giving techniques for working out answers to those questions would be helpful. (The RMCs didn't provide any such techniques.)