Trapping with Wall of Force

[phillipjp]

First, let me post the description for Wall of Ice as a reference:

Saving Throw: See text

Hemisphere: The wall takes the form of a hemisphere whose maximum radius is 3 feet +1 foot per caster level. Thus, a 7th-level caster can create a hemisphere 10 feet in radius. It is as hard to break through as the ice plane form, but it does not deal damage to those who go through a breach.

The character can create the hemisphere so that it traps one or more creatures, though these creatures can avoid being trapped by the hemisphere by making successful Reflex saves.

Now, the description for Wall of Force:

Saving Throw: None

The caster can form the wall into a flat, vertical plane whose area is up to one 10-foot square per level, or into a sphere or hemisphere with a radius of up to 1 foot per level.

Ok, now my question. Does a Wall of Force allow a caster to trap someone without a save? It does not mention trapping someone, but it does mention the spherical shape. (If you can't trap someone, what's the sphere shape for?) Also, WOI mentions a save, but WOF clearly says No Save in the summary.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

IMO, it was a error included in the spell description, resulting from something being changed after playtesting.

However, I don't think anything official has been done about that. I would probably house rule it to require a reflex save to avoid.

 

[Gromm]

Back in the day we asked the Sage that very question and his reply was that you could trap someone and they should be allowed a reflex save to avoid it (like all the other walls that allow for trapping creatures if I recall).

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Gromm is correct, there is supposed to be a reflex save to avoid being trapped in a wall of force.

However, this is not the case with forcecage, which might indicate why it costs 1500 just to prepare the spell.

 

[TurboTroll]

Personally I think no save should be allowed for wall of force, this is INVISIBLE wall... and U can't detect it till it will be in effect, in case of other walls U can see them and U can try to avoid it by dodging or so. Area of effect and range of the spell is not so great, I think the spell is in good tune in compare to other spells from PH.

of course everything is up to your DM.

 

[Demogorge]

negates?

Would a reflex save negate the wall entirely like Otiluke's Resilient Sphere? You don't have to dodge out of the way, you only have to move far enough that you break the edge and the spell fails.

Although I'm not sure you should be allowed a save against it, if the Sage says so it must be so...

 

[Celestian]

I think its quite obvious that the orb/capture version of the spell allows a reflex check. The flat wall version does not. How can you use it any other way? =) They specifically say in the spell with the 'capture' version the target gets a reflex.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

How in the world do you use your reflexes to avoid being traped in an invisible shell?

I will use the spell the way the sage has meant because I don't want the spell to become the super-boss spell it would be otherwise, but I hope it never comes up in game because I'm going to have a hard time describing what happens.

Maybe just before it becomes solid you CAN actually see it for a moment.

Don't worry about me, I'm just thinking onto the screen.

--Open-Minded Spikey

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Spikey might have a point here. As far as consistency, shouldn't it work like Forcecage? I guess having the spell be 7th level instead of 5th gets to remove the reflex save to avoid it....

 

[Celestian]

How in the world do you use your reflexes to avoid being traped in an invisible shell?

I will use the spell the way the sage has meant because I don't want the spell to become the super-boss spell it would be otherwise, but I hope it never comes up in game because I'm going to have a hard time describing what happens.

Maybe just before it becomes solid you CAN actually see it for a moment.

Don't worry about me, I'm just thinking onto the screen.

--Open-Minded Spikey

Well, telekinesis is invisible also and you get a save. There are several types of spells that have the same points you bring up that gets saves.