True20 and Hit Points

Knightfall

World of Kulan DM
Okay, so I'm sold on True20 as a game I want to try, but I'm not too keen on the idea of not having hit points for specific types of campaigns. Specifically, a high fantasy type game.

Therefore, I'm interested in finding out if anyone has devised a method for including hit points in a True20 game. I've already got an idea myself but it's pretty basic and raw.

Basically, each Role gets a number of hit points / level as per the following...

Adept (or slow *) = 1
Expert (or medium *) = 2
Warrior (or fast *) = 3
* Combat progressions.

At first level each character gains a one time bonus / penalty of hit points based on the character's Constitution score.

I haven't completely figured out the best way to convert True20 damage to do hit point damage for this system, but I have an idea. Using the "Damage Dice to Damage Bonus" table in the back of the Revised book, you first convert the damage bonus to damage dice. Then you do the following...

d3/d4 = 1 hit point damage
d6/d8 = 2 hit points damage
d10/d12 = 3 hit points damage

For damage bonuses higher than +5, I say add +1 hit point of damage for every +2 (or, maybe, +3) above +5.

I still want to use the Toughness saving throw and the conditions for Non-Lethal and Lethal damage somehow, but I haven't thought that far ahead yet.

Opinions?
 
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Brutorz Bill

First Post
I'm a newbie to True20 myself, love the character creation options, but I'm still trying to get my head around the damage system myself.
Will be following this thread.
 

Knightfall

World of Kulan DM
Brutorz Bill said:
I'm a newbie to True20 myself, love the character creation options, but I'm still trying to get my head around the damage system myself.
Will be following this thread.
Yeah, the damage system is the one thing I want to change or, at least, modify. I think the current damage system is great for a science fiction, horror, or modern game, but I like hit points for fanasy games. (Call me old-fashioned.)

I could see having this hit point system for a Gamma World campaign; although, I'd likely give out only 1 hit point per level regardless of Role but still add on the character's Con score.

Hmm, perhaps I could steal the "bloodied" concept from 4e. Hmm... possibliities.
 

Darrin Drader

Explorer
This is one of the reasons I don't use True20 for fantasy games. I also don't feel that the magic system is well suited for fantasy. That's the reason my personal gaming preferences are True20 and Pathfinder to cover the spread of genres.
 

BSF

Explorer
Heck, you have D&D right? Keep is simple.

Adept = d4 or d6
Expert = d6 or d8
Warrior = d10 or d12

Depending, of course, on how you envision the relative toughness of PCs.

Or if you want hit points, without the random factor, take the average, rounded up.

Then use the damage for weapons out of the PHB/SRD. And again, if you don't want variables, use averages rounded up.

It all depends on the aspect of damage you are trying to modify. Maybe borrow from FFG's Darkness & Dread sourcebook? Which is Con X size factor + level.

There are lots of options, but I am curious what you find lacking in the toughness save for fantasy campaigns?
 

Knightfall

World of Kulan DM
Okay, for Non-Lethal and Lethal damage conditions, here's a quick idea.

Non-Lethal
Bruised and Dazed: Works exactly like it says in the book.

Staggered: A character is considered staggered when half the character's hit points are gone due to non-lethal damage only.

Unconcious: A character falls unconcious when all his/her hit points are gone due to non-lethal damage only.

Lethal
Hurt: Works exactly like it says in the book.

Wounded: A character is considered wounded when half the character's hit points are gone due to a combination of non-lethal and lethal damage.

Disabled: A character at zero hit points.

Dying: A character with a positive Consttution score is considered dying if his/her hit points drop below zero due to a combination of non-lethal and lethal damage. The character loses 1 hit point per round.

The number of rounds a character can be considered dying is equal to his Consttution score (1 to 5), which I'm going to refer to as his Dying Threshold. (A character with a Con score of "0" dies at zero hit points.)

Dead: A character is considered dead when his/her hit points drops below his Dying Threshold.

Opinions please!
 
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Knightfall

World of Kulan DM
BSF said:
Heck, you have D&D right? Keep is simple.

Adept = d4 or d6
Expert = d6 or d8
Warrior = d10 or d12

Depending, of course, on how you envision the relative toughness of PCs.

Or if you want hit points, without the random factor, take the average, rounded up.

Then use the damage for weapons out of the PHB/SRD. And again, if you don't want variables, use averages rounded up.

It all depends on the aspect of damage you are trying to modify. Maybe borrow from FFG's Darkness & Dread sourcebook? Which is Con X size factor + level.
Yes, I thought of that but I want a much lower hit point number. I'm trying to add to the True20 style of play without using the core hit point mechanics from D&D/the SRD.

BSF said:
There are lots of options, but I am curious what you find lacking in the toughness save for fantasy campaigns?
That's just it, I want to combine hit points with the Toughness save.
 

damiller

Adventurer
My True20 hit point alternative:

Beginning Hit Points

Adept 18 + Con mod; d6 per level
Expert 24 + Con mod; d8 per level
Warrior 30 + Con mod: d10 per level

Damage is figured on the difference rolled between the attack and the defense plus weapon damage.

ie

Bob the Warrior attacks Tom the Wizard. Bob rolls a total of 17. Tom has a 14 Defense. Bob is using a Sword (+2), and has a Str (+1), he does a total of 3+2+1= 6 hp of damage.

Double this for criticals.

I have tried this out in my home games and it works like a charm.


Then on top of this if you still wanted to use the various conditions you could have a Damage Threshold like Star Wars, and whenever damage went above that number (say your Toughness "Save") you have the next lowest condition.

d ;D
 

Knightfall

World of Kulan DM
Darrin Drader said:
This is one of the reasons I don't use True20 for fantasy games. I also don't feel that the magic system is well suited for fantasy. That's the reason my personal gaming preferences are True20 and Pathfinder to cover the spread of genres.
See, I want to use True20 with my Dark World campaign setting, and it's really high fantasy with some horrific elements thrown in. It's a fallen world ruled by evil (sort of like Midnight but without that world's baggage). I was already going to use the generic classes from UA for Dark World, so I immediately saw the potential for using True20 for the campaign world instead.

I might convert my Spelljammer steampunk campaign, Time of Ages, to True20 too and I'd likely want hit points for that campaign as well.
 
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damiller

Adventurer
Or if you still wanted to roll the Toughness Save

You could make an additional roll once damage is determined (ie number of hit points of damage taken) and then make a Toughness Save = 10 + damage taken.

Then consult the True 20 chart to see the condition you currently have.

Seems more complex to me, but it would allow for HP and the Toughness save.

Of course it could also allow for some fun things to happen, such as knocking out a hero with enough hitpoints because she failed her toughness save so badly.

that could be fun! ;)

d :D
 

Knightfall

World of Kulan DM
damiller said:
Or if you still wanted to roll the Toughness Save

You could make an additional roll once damage is determined (ie number of hit points of damage taken) and then make a Toughness Save = 10 + damage taken.

Then consult the True 20 chart to see the condition you currently have.

Seems more complex to me, but it would allow for HP and the Toughness save.

Of course it could also allow for some fun things to happen, such as knocking out a hero with enough hitpoints because she failed her toughness save so badly.

that could be fun! ;)

d :D
Okay, now that I really like. It's sort of the best of both worlds. I'd likely stick with a lower amount of hit points thna you use, but that's just me. ;)
 

Knightfall

World of Kulan DM
Like this...

Beginning Hit Points
Adept 3 + Con; 1 per level
Expert 6 + Con; 2 per level
Warrior 9 + Con; 3 per level

Damage would be done damiller's way...

damiller said:
Damage is figured on the difference rolled between the attack and the defense plus weapon damage.

ie

Bob the Warrior attacks Tom the Wizard. Bob rolls a total of 17. Tom has a 14 Defense. Bob is using a Sword (+2), and has a Str (+1), he does a total of 3+2+1= 6 hp of damage.

Double this for criticals.
Plus, I'd use the Toughness roll after the damage has been determined...

damiller said:
You could make an additional roll once damage is determined (ie number of hit points of damage taken) and then make a Toughness Save = 10 + damage taken.

Then consult the True20 chart to see the condition you currently have.
This has a lot of potential, IMO.
 

Knightfall

World of Kulan DM
However, I'd still want character's to become "staggered" or "wounded" when half of the character's hit points are gone. So, if a character is damaged enough to become "staggered", due to dropping below half his/her hit points, and then he / she fails his / her Toughness save, ouch!!!

I'll also be keeping my idea on dying and the Dying Threshold.
 
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Treebore

First Post
I would try the damage save mechanic for awhile first. I didn't think I would like it in M&M either, but I do now, and am confident I would like it in True 20 as well.

How long did it take me to become fine with the save damage mechanic? During the 3rd 3 hour game session of M&M. I then "got" how it reflected damage, and I think I am actually starting to like it better than HP's.

Its just a different way of thinking, and it takes a while to warm up to different ways of thinking.
 

Knightfall

World of Kulan DM
Well, I can't really make that decision yet. I need to read more of the book. However, I want a hit point option for True20, plain and simple. I'm a tinkerer by default and the book is definitely designed to be tinkered with, IMO. :cool:
 

damiller

Adventurer
Knightfall1972 said:
Like this...

Beginning Hit Points
Adept 3 + Con; 1 per level
Expert 6 + Con; 2 per level
Warrior 9 + Con; 3 per level

The reason I set mine so high, was because when I played I had both the defender and the attacker roll. And this made the possibility of large amounts of damage a real threat.

I left that part out, and went with my "first draft" of the idea by accident. I had my "first draft" attack mechanic (static defense, dynamic attack) but my "second draft" hit point totals (dynamic attack/defense).

I preferred having both sides roll and add the appropriate modifiers, but it could have potentially deadly results. Hence a larger pool of hit points.

With a static defense the likelihood of 20+ points of damage in one attack is low.

d :D

ps. I would like to add that this is the only way in which I will play True20. I originally liked the toughness save mechanic, but for my money nothing can beat good old hit points as a simple way to track when you are out of a fight.
 

ValhallaGH

First Post
However, I want a hit point option for True20, plain and simple. I'm a tinkerer by default and the book is definitely designed to be tinkered with, IMO. :cool:
The best hit point variant I've seen for True20 is this one on the True20 boards. Interesting stuff.

Each character has hp equal to (Con + 5) x 4. Each Tough feat adds 4 hp.
Your character gains damage reduction equal to the Toughness bonus from Armor and Defensive Roll (the Defensive Roll bonus goes away under the normal conditions).
Weapons do dice of damage, up to 1d12 (all higher damage is additive). Critical hits deal maximum die damage and add a flat number to the damage (usually +3, but sometimes more for especially nasty weapons).

Of the many hp variants for True20 that I've seen, this is probably the best. I'd be more likely to use one of the Static Toughness variants, or Baduin's Toughness System instead, but if I had to use hp I'd probably use the "Dirty 20" method.
 

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