Tumble charge?

[0-hr]

What's the current consensus on doing a tumble as part of a charge (to close in on a creature with reach for example)?

 

[Hypersmurf]

What's the current consensus on doing a tumble as part of a charge (to close in on a creature with reach for example)?

It depends on your interpretation of 'charge' and 'normal movement'.

I don't consider a charge to be 'normal movement', and so I don't allow tumble. People who do, do.

-Hyp.

 

[Alchemist]

My guts say no. I see charging as flinging yourself at your opponent somewhat heedlessly to gain an advantage from your momentum (Thus the bonus to hit and the penalty to AC). Tumbling would involve feinting and redirection of your momentum in the rolling and ducking, thus more or less negating the advantage you would have gained from rushing in.

I don't have my books to back it up, but that's what my DM-sense is telling me.

 

[0-hr]

Thanks for the information. I was hoping maybe there was a FAQ entry or a sage response lying around somewhere. Maybe a good solution would be to allow it, but then use one of the variant counter-tumble rules. I really hate to complicate things though.

 

[Destil]

Likewise I don't see the 'normal movement' clause as restricting when you can tumble, but rather specifying it as a non-action, so I allow it.

 

[Petrosian]

From a letter of the law, there is no specific prohibition.

From a spirit of the law, the "straight line" restrcition should prohibit a tumble since you really cannot easily justify s stright line and tumble to avoid attacks.

However, rather than just ban this combo, allowing for nods to erroll flynn style charges, forward roll and strike as roll commences upward type maneuvers we have all seen in movies...

Allow it but apply a serious penalty to the tumble check. maybe -5 or even higher depending on how much you think it inhibits. -10? At -10, assuming a 20 dex and MAXED tumble, a 16th leve rogue with tumble+19 could automatically charge-tumble thru reach hexes to strike an ogre/giant. That doesn't sounds totally out of whack. At 6th level, he can auto-tumble thru without the charge.

All in all, it looks like a great representation of high skill level use.

So, IMO, make it harder, not impossible. As a general rule, my first choice is to go with -5 to -20 penalties for those actions that my gut says "nah" to. Let them be impressive.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

ditto what Petrosian said.

My rule is base -5, and then double other envirnomental penalties like those found in song and silence.(generally bad terain, slippery floor, bad lighting etc mods)

 

[Hypersmurf]

However, rather than just ban this combo, allowing for nods to erroll flynn style charges, forward roll and strike as roll commences upward type maneuvers we have all seen in movies...

But the rules don't stop a forward-roll-strike-etc combination. They're just limited to moving their speed, not twice their speed.

-Hyp.

 

[Petrosian]

But the rules don't stop a forward-roll-strike-etc combination. They're just limited to moving their speed, not twice their speed.

-Hyp.

If, for you, having errol flynn able to do the run up forward roll maneuver with no problem at 30' id fine, habing errol flynn hustle 60' is ok too, but having him charge 35' and do the tumble roll upstrike is IMPOSSIBLE NEVER EVER COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN IN ANY WAY... is the right way to go, all power to you.

For my money, making such more difficult seems like a better approach. I feel it gives characters more of a chnce to be extraordinary and see the results of their investment in skills.

I don't see the rules as being that rigid on this subject. Matter of fact, there is not one single clear rule stating that the act of charging has any impact whatsoever on tumbling.

YMMV.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Matter of fact, there is not one single clear rule stating that the act of charging has any impact whatsoever on tumbling.

I offer Table 8-1, Fundamental Actions in Combat.

Tumbling is part of "normal" movement. What sort of movement does a Charge allow?

Table 8-1 says "Special".

-Hyp.