Twin Strike or similar powers & target selection

[Shin Okada]

When I can make 2 attacks against 1 or 2 creatures, do I need to choose the target or targets before solving one of the attacks? Or can I choose the target of the second attack after solving the first attack?

Assume I see 2 goblins, A & B. I want to concentrate fire on A if one shot is not enough to kill it but want to use the second attack against B if the first shot kills A. Can I solve an attack and then choose the target of another attack?

 

[Infiniti2000]

You choose the targets at once. One shot is not a follow-up of the other.

 

[Droogie128]

There's no official ruling on this. It's a DM call. I'd say you can switch targets, since there are 2 seperate attacks, and the order of making an attack is choosing a target then attacking. It has long been a debate.

 

[Amaroq]

I'd rule the opposite to Droogie

In my understanding, one makes the "Attack" line against the "Target", and then makes the "Secondary Attack" against the "Secondary Target".

That would create a functional difference between:

Twin Strike
Targets: One or two creatures
Attack: Strength vs AC (melee; main weapon and off-hand weapon)
Hit: 1[W] damage per attack

and a (hypothetical):

Twin Strike
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs AC (melee; main weapon)
Hit: 1[W] damage
Effect: Make a secondary attack
. Secondary Target: The same creature or a different creature
. Secondary Attack: Strength vs AC (melee; off-hand weapon)
. Hit: 1[W] damage

...... but, to my knowledge the question hasn't been answered explicitly and it does seem to depend on your interpretation.

Twin Strike seems to be the "worst offender" for this: most other powers which grant two attacks do so by using the "Effect: make a secondary attack against a different creature" mechanism, or by using "Hit: make a secondary attack against the same or a different creature" .. neither of which is really comparable to what Twin Strike seems to grant.

Therefore, I'd say, expect your individual DM to rule one way or the other based on whether or not he thinks Twin Strike is overpowered or not.

 

[Samir]

This is still a topic of some debate. RAW, however, I believe the PHB provides sufficient information to rule that Twin Strike and similar powers allow you to choose targets sequentially. (See my earlier post at http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-rules/264012-twin-strike-question.html#post4908010.)

You choose the targets at once. One shot is not a follow-up of the other.

I don't think the flavor or the RAW agree with this interpretation. In fact, I'm rather surprised you changed sides on this. Was some errata released that I'm not aware of?

 

[luide]

♦According to PHB 269, attack resolution is following:

Making an Attack
All attacks follow same basic process:
1. Choose the attack you'll use. Each attack has an attack type.
2. Choose targets for the attack (page 272). Each target must be within range (page 273). Check whether you can see and target your enemies (page 273).
3. Make an attack roll (page 273)
4. Compare your attack roll to target's defense (page 274) to determine whether you hit or miss.
5. Deal damage and apply other effects (page 276)

Emphasis is mine.

Going by this, RAW seems clear.
You'll have to first choose one or two both targets for Twin Strike (targets can be same creature) before doing attack rolls.

It's possible to interpret "1. Choose the attack you'll use. Each attack has an attack type." as meaning Attack: line of the power, but IMHO it's pretty obvious they meant "attack power" simply because the other interpretation will make it impossible to do proper resolution of power as the Attack: line includes attack roll.

I think they would have included something about Attack: line being considered before Targets: line at PHB2 218 if designers had actually meant it. But I might be wrong.

But Samir's post at http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-rules/264012-twin-strike-question.html#post4908010 uses exactly same rules as I here to argue completely different position, so it's obviously not as clear cut case as I have thought beforehand.
WOTC should really use more exact language, it's annoying that they use "attack" interchangeably with :
* Attack power / Utility power that has Attack: line
* Attack: line in powers
* Attack roll
Never specifying what they actually meant.


Edit:
I remembered Twin Strike wording incorrectly, corrected my text to reflect this.
Twin Strike:
Targets: One or two creatures
Attack: Strength vs. AC (melee; main weapon and off-hand weapon) or Dexterity vs. AC (ranged), two attacks

 

[Jack99]

There's no official ruling on this. It's a DM call. I'd say you can switch targets, since there are 2 seperate attacks, and the order of making an attack is choosing a target then attacking. It has long been a debate.

Why would we need a ruling when the rules are clear. You chose targets before rolling to hit, its fairly easy.

 

[Droogie128]

Why would we need a ruling when the rules are clear. You chose targets before rolling to hit, its fairly easy.

You choose targets before rolling to hit for an attack. Twin Strike is 2 completely seperate attacks. Interpretation can go 2 ways. This actually comes up in RPGA quite a bit, and I've seen it ruled both ways.

 

[Jack99]

You choose targets before rolling to hit for an attack. Twin Strike is 2 completely seperate attacks. Interpretation can go 2 ways. This actually comes up in RPGA quite a bit, and I've seen it ruled both ways.

I must admit that I am a bit shocked, but fair enough. You should ask WotC next Thursday, with a little luck, you might even get an official answer.

 

[abyssaldeath]

When the rules aren't clear I always go for what is more fun for the player. Having an attack wasted because the first one killed the target is not fun. I say let them choose before each individual attack roll.