D&D 5E (2024) Unpopular opinion: I wish 5e PCs looked like NPCs

[Clint_L]

Sure. I can convince 1-2 of my tables to give almost anything a try.

I'm curious to see if I can get one of my GMs to go along with me playing a cambion in an upcoming game, which is starting at 8th level.

Cambion is on the stronger side of CR 5, probably closer to a 9th or 10th level character. He might go for it.

That’s a big ask. A cambion has a couple of innate abilities that would be hard to balance around (plane shift, level 8 dominate person). Also, how long is the campaign supposed to run?

I feel like this character would be fairly useless most of the time and then game breaking at others. As a DM, my thought would be “Great. Like my job isn’t challenging enough.” As another player, I’d be annoyed.

 

[TwoSix]

That’s a big ask. A cambion has a couple of innate abilities that would be hard to balance around (plane shift, level 8 dominate person). Also, how long is the campaign supposed to run?

I feel like this character would be fairly useless most of the time and then game breaking at others. As a DM, my thought would be “Great. Like my job isn’t challenging enough.” As another player, I’d be annoyed.

Probably our normal run, 25-30 sessions or so.

Level 8 dominate person is fun utility (upscaling it to 8 makes it last 8 hours), but I don't think it will break anything. Good for social engineering shenanigans, but concentration and the save reroll whenever they take damage makes it weak as a combat boon, outside of charming a caster to do things for you.

And 2024 plane shift is almost useless, except as GM tool to allow you to go places. You need an attuned tuning fork to go anywhere, and 2024 doesn't have the banishment function anymore. As a GM, it's the kind of tool I don't have to worry about my players having. It lets them feel powerful, but doesn't actually enable any narrative control that I'm not ready for.

Shouldn't be useless, damage averages [30 times standard Tier 2 accuracy (+7)] per round, so that keeps up. I'd certainly be willing to lower HP durability down to 8th level norms (8d8+24, so 67 HP standard) to compensate for gaining rolled Hit Die.

I'm probably weird, but as a GM I love when players bring me out-there concepts that require a bunch of custom rules. It shows me they're really invested in their character concept.

 

[Minigiant]

Not bad for a progression, although probably more spells than I would want. But I'm of the opinion that a caster doesn't need more than 5 innate, non-ritual spells.

Diversification is for magical items.

D&D's magic was original designed to "end encounters". So once casters had as many spells as encounters, it breaks down.

Simplifying stat blocks fixes the Versatility and Co.plexity issue but Power and Quantity are big issues with Vancian.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Anyway, to be a little more constructive here, taking the priest statblock here and examining what i'd want changed about it to my satisfaction while trying to keep in line with the design minimalism.

Spoiler: priest statblock

-First things, no pre-assigned stats, customization is one of the biggest draws of DnD and even on a minimalism build should still be a factor
-following that, equipment should at least be a selection of either-or situations like how starting equipment offers you A/B choices
-next, it needs to scale, i want a character to grow in some capacity as it levels
-and as i mentioned previously upthread, it needs more features which identify it as what it is.

OKAY i spent entirely too long on this today but this is pretty close to what i'd want

EDIT: i knew i forgot something, ASI, the usual rules, at every four levels gain 2 ASI, these can be added as one +2 or two +1s.

...and the proficiency bonus, imagine a box for writing the PB in.

EDIT EDIT: ideally personally i'd want a species statblock of approximately equal chunkiness to this to pair with it.

 

[TwoSix]

-First things, no pre-assigned stats, customization is one of the biggest draws of DnD and even on a minimalism build should still be a factor
-following that, equipment should at least be a selection of either-or situations like how starting equipment offers you A/B choices
-next, it needs to scale, i want a character to grow in some capacity as it levels
-and as i mentioned previously upthread, it needs more features which identify it as what it is.

OKAY i spent entirely too long on this today but this is pretty close to what i'd want
View attachment 440472

EDIT: i knew i forgot something, ASI, the usual rules, at every four levels gain 2 ASI, these can be added as one +2 or two +1s.

...and the proficiency bonus, imagine a box for writing the PB in.

Looks good, I like it.

I don't think I made this idea clear in my initial posts, but my like of this idea isn't based around the idea of the character being fixed at selection. I want to see 100 blocks of characters like these so players who want to tinker have guidelines and building blocks to do the tinkering.

What's so nice about NPCs as opposed to PCs is that you can build to spec. Everything is just guidelines; there's no system. Just do an appropriate amount of at-will damage, don't be crazy with AC or HP or overall defenses, and have some utility skills and spells.

This is what I put together today, I'm curious to see if my GM will go for it. Meant for an 8th level party.

Druidic Warrior

Stony Skin. The druidic warrior's armor class is equal to 13 + their Constitution modifier (+3). This bonus stacks with a worn shield, ...

www.dndbeyond.com

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

When I'm browsing through some of the monster options in the most recent Monster Manual, and I see sheets like these:

Mage » DnD 5.5 Monsters

Priest » DnD 5.5 Monsters

Pirate Captain » DnD 5.5 Monsters

Goblin Hexer » DnD 5.5 Monsters

Cambion » DnD 5.5 Monsters

I think, I wish 5e PCs looked like that. Simple, clean, elegant. No moving parts, just pick up and play. I'd like to just have a PHB that's like 100-150 blocks like that, let the players pick one, and have some optional rules in the back to let advanced players swap out some functions as desired.

When you level, gain a Hit Die and increase 1 stat by 1.

In could get behind this concept. We play several sessions per level and don’t really care to much for character building at level up.

It is more about playing the game than building characters for us

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Anyway, to be a little more constructive here, taking the priest statblock here and examining what i'd want changed about it to my satisfaction while trying to keep in line with the design minimalism.

Spoiler: priest statblock

View attachment 440439

-First things, no pre-assigned stats, customization is one of the biggest draws of DnD and even on a minimalism build should still be a factor
-following that, equipment should at least be a selection of either-or situations like how starting equipment offers you A/B choices
-next, it needs to scale, i want a character to grow in some capacity as it levels
-and as i mentioned previously upthread, it needs more features which identify it as what it is.

OKAY i spent entirely too long on this today but this is pretty close to what i'd want
View attachment 440472

EDIT: i knew i forgot something, ASI, the usual rules, at every four levels gain 2 ASI, these can be added as one +2 or two +1s.

...and the proficiency bonus, imagine a box for writing the PB in.

EDIT EDIT: ideally personally i'd want a species statblock of approximately equal chunkiness to this to pair with it.

How do you make that custom stat block? Very cool

 

[CreamCloud0]

How do you make that custom stat block? Very cool

by spending the best part of the day in an image program.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

When I'm browsing through some of the monster options in the most recent Monster Manual, and I see sheets like these:

Mage » DnD 5.5 Monsters

Priest » DnD 5.5 Monsters

Pirate Captain » DnD 5.5 Monsters

Goblin Hexer » DnD 5.5 Monsters

Cambion » DnD 5.5 Monsters

I think, I wish 5e PCs looked like that. Simple, clean, elegant. No moving parts, just pick up and play. I'd like to just have a PHB that's like 100-150 blocks like that, let the players pick one, and have some optional rules in the back to let advanced players swap out some functions as desired.

When you level, gain a Hit Die and increase 1 stat by 1.

While it might not be quite identical...isn't that basically 4e?

Like I'm genuinely not doing this from my "I love 4e" stance. Looking at this statblock, it looks a lot like a 4e statblock. Not identical, it doesn't actually include all mechanics needed for play. But it looks very much like an abbreviated player statblock, where the info for the specific powers/"spells" would be on cards.

 

[Tigris]

While it might not be quite identical...isn't that basically 4e?

Like I'm genuinely not doing this from my "I love 4e" stance. Looking at this statblock, it looks a lot like a 4e statblock. Not identical, it doesn't actually include all mechanics needed for play. But it looks very much like an abbreviated player statblock, where the info for the specific powers/"spells" would be on cards.

I was thinking exactly the same before XD