D&D 5E (2024) Unpopular opinion: I wish 5e PCs looked like NPCs

[Minigiant]

While it might not be quite identical...isn't that basically 4e?

Like I'm genuinely not doing this from my "I love 4e" stance. Looking at this statblock, it looks a lot like a 4e statblock. Not identical, it doesn't actually include all mechanics needed for play. But it looks very much like an abbreviated player statblock, where the info for the specific powers/"spells" would be on cards.

I didnt want to be the one saying "D&D accidentally reinvent 4e for the 567th time" thid time.

 

[Minigiant]

Looks good, I like it.

I don't think I made this idea clear in my initial posts, but my like of this idea isn't based around the idea of the character being fixed at selection. I want to see 100 blocks of characters like these so players who want to tinker have guidelines and building blocks to do the tinkering.

What's so nice about NPCs as opposed to PCs is that you can build to spec. Everything is just guidelines; there's no system. Just do an appropriate amount of at-will damage, don't be crazy with AC or HP or overall defenses, and have some utility skills and spells.

This is what I put together today, I'm curious to see if my GM will go for it. Meant for an 8th level party.

Druidic Warrior

Stony Skin. The druidic warrior's armor class is equal to 13 + their Constitution modifier (+3). This bonus stacks with a worn shield, ...

www.dndbeyond.com

The real issue like I said before is the current statblocks favor casters and massive sacks of HPs.

Like the Priest (caster) shares CR 2 with

• Bandit Captian (~25% more HP and ~4 more AC)
• Berserker (~75% more HP)
• Cult Fanatic (caster)
• Druid (caster)
• Mage Apprentice (caster)

And thats just Cr2. Martials and half casters have fewer options. So the Players will want to be compensated.

Its not a bad idea. However for it to work, you have to be okay with when the Wizard NPC as PC gets Fireball, the Fighter and Monk NPCPC has 25 AC, the Barbarian has 100 HP and 5 resistances, and the Rogue, Paladin, and Ranger deal a sack full of damage per hit.

Its a cool idea. I'd love to try that game. But the numbers will have to inflate hard.

 

[TwoSix]

While it might not be quite identical...isn't that basically 4e?

Like I'm genuinely not doing this from my "I love 4e" stance. Looking at this statblock, it looks a lot like a 4e statblock. Not identical, it doesn't actually include all mechanics needed for play. But it looks very much like an abbreviated player statblock, where the info for the specific powers/"spells" would be on cards.

It definitely shares some aesthetic similarities to 4e, and part of my attraction to both this "monster PC" concept and 4e's PCs is that they're sharply focused on building to a specific concept, with a minimum of extraneous abilities within chargen.

Where my attraction differs is that like the more "vibe" approach of building a PC like a monster, as opposed to the tight rules structure of 4e. Not that a robust character building framework doesn't have a place in my heart, but it isn't where my current interests like.

 

[TwoSix]

The real issue like I said before is the current statblocks favor casters and massive sacks of HPs.

Like the Priest (caster) shares CR 2 with

• Bandit Captian (~25% more HP and ~4 more AC)
• Berserker (~75% more HP)
• Cult Fanatic (caster)
• Druid (caster)
• Mage Apprentice (caster)

And thats just Cr2. Martials and half casters have fewer options. So the Players will want to be compensated.

Its not a bad idea. However for it to work, you have to be okay with when the Wizard NPC as PC gets Fireball, the Fighter and Monk NPCPC has 25 AC, the Barbarian has 100 HP and 5 resistances, and the Rogue, Paladin, and Ranger deal a sack full of damage per hit.

Its a cool idea. I'd love to try that game. But the numbers will have to inflate hard.

For sure. Even within CR2, you can see that some CR2 are much more robust than others.

I'd want to pull together a bunch of CR 1-3 monsters and see if there is some kind of rough average of capabilities, and then probably provide some starting buffs for the weaker choices.

Edit: Make that CR 5-8. More compelling monsters in that range, and that's around the power level where I feel the block is playable over the course of a campaign with minimal advancement needed.

 

[Minigiant]

For sure. Even within CR2, you can see that some CR2 are much more robust than others.

I'd want to pull together a bunch of CR 1-3 monsters and see if there is some kind of rough average of capabilities, and then probably provide some starting buffs for the weaker choices.

Hit Points: 9 + 18 per CR
Damage assuming ~50% accuracy: 3.75 + 7.5 per CR

 

[TwoSix]

Hit Points: 9 + 18 per CR
Damage assuming ~50% accuracy: 3.75 + 7.5 per CR

Yea, that tracks with my observations. Thanks!

Now to come up with a story hook for characters using monster blocks.

 

[Senior_WotC_Janitor]

First of all, a 6th level character should not have a 4th level spell.

According to whom, God?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

According to whom, God?

According to the spell progression of the game...?

A 4th level character, even as a full spellcaster, doesn't get 4th level spells until (4x2-1)=7th level. A 4th level character shouldn't even have 3rd level spells, let alone 4th.

It would be like saying "According to whom, God?" when someone says that a 4th level character shouldn't have "You can make three attacks instead of one when you take the Attack action." That's not a feature that appears before 11th level, and even a singular EA doesn't occur by 4th level.

 

[Minigiant]

Yea, that tracks with my observations. Thanks!

Now to come up with a story hook for characters using monster blocks.

Have everyone be a CR 1/8 Guard guarding a noble.

If they succeed, they level up and are granted a mission.

Each "level up" is:

1. 3 HD
2. +2 to one abilty score
3. +2 to one abilty score
4. One of
   1. 1 extra attack when you Multiattack
   2. +2d6 to damage
   3. +1d8 to damage and Parry
   4. 2/Day of 1 Offensive spell
   5. 1/Day of 1 Offensive spell and 3/Day of 1 Non-Offensive spell

 

[Gradine]

According to the spell progression of the game...?

A 4th level character, even as a full spellcaster, doesn't get 4th level spells until (4x2-1)=7th level. A 4th level character shouldn't even have 3rd level spells, let alone 4th.