Urgrosh/Gouge question

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Okay, if you have the Rending mod on a Urgrosh or a Gouge, and you have 2 Weapon Fighting and 2 Weapon Opening...and this comes up... what happens?

You attack - you crit with the Urgrosh/Gouge (main, axe end), you get another attack with the same weapon (main, axe end), then 2 Weapon Opening kicks in, giving you a free action attack with the other end (offhand, spear). Now, with the spear/offhand end attack, you crit again...since its a spear end, and not an axe, but it is part of the same weapon, do you or don't you get another attack with that same spear/offhand end because of the Rending Mod?

Thanks, hope that wasn't too unclear.

 

[Grydan]

A gouge isn't a double weapon. It's a spear that is also an axe, not an axe that has a spear on the other end. It can't be used with Two Weapon Fighting and Two Weapon Opening.

Yes, with a Rending urgrosh you would get the extra attack. The current Double Weapon rules specifically state that "An enchanted double weapon gains all of the benefits of the enchantment on each end (even if one end would not normally qualify for the enchantment)".

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Okay, thanks!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

don´t know if it applies here, but: only one free action attack per turn!

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

don´t know if it applies here, but: only one free action attack per turn!

From my understanding, that is correct. So Two-weapon Opening would only allow 1 free action attack with the offhand weapon (or end), but Rending is different. It grants extra attacks, not free action attacks, which makes it pretty awesome, IMHO.

 

[keterys]

Well, sorta... it's worth asking your DM what kind of action they want the attack from Rending to be since the item is unfortunately not written in a rules cognizant fashion...

No Action: It works while stunned or dead, as well as dominated. Also lets Rending deal infinite damage. Probably not this one.
Free Action: Only one allowed per turn, doesn't stack with Two-Weapon Opening or itself. Probably this one, though it makes CharOp cry.
Minor Action: Wouldn't work on off-turn attacks any more, and is a little bit more of a dubious change.
Anything else starts getting more and more dubious - OAs or immediates don't work on turn, move is just silly, standard is just useless.

Ergo, the only logical action type for it to be is "Free" so it'll suffer the 1/turn limitation, same as everything else. Given that WotC created the 1/turn limitation in part due to builds that leveraged Rending weapons to deal infinite damage, we at least know RAI in this one case.

A lot of DMs might allow rending and two-weapon opening to stack. Probably a lot more than would allow, say, Rending and Rending (and Rending and Rending and Rending) to stack.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

I understand what you are saying, but as is, RAW says it works.

Hopefully some monthly update or the other will address it.

 

[keterys]

Since I was unclear... RAW isn't that it works. It's lacking a rule (what action) to be usable... technically, as written it gives you one as a _standard action_ because it doesn't specify otherwise and the rule is that melee basic attacks are standard actions.

And obviously that's wrong

Rending comes from a time when they didn't really know how to write the game still, and weren't tagging things with "free action". Like every single granted basic attack power that has been made or errata-ed since.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

What would be entertaining is to present my original question to WOTC Customer service...

Yeah, I'm a glutton for punishment...

 

[keterys]

Depends who you get - fair chance they'll say to ask your DM, if they read deeply into the Rending thing... they probably won't, though, so otherwise you've got even odds of "You only get one free action attack" or "Sure, doesn't say it's a free action"

The real answer remains to ask your DM, of course.